A whiff of Cordite

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ronk
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Post by ronk »

artaneboy wrote: May 15th, 2024, 5:52 pm Yeah- good line, but so what? Joe is gone… long gone. Dave is gone too; great servant but gone from Leinster and Ireland. Zebo is still playing in Ireland .

Now- I’m not saying that Zebo is a wonderful player; still less a trainer, but he has significant talent still. He can’t be simply caricatured as just a fat boy.
Everyone liked Dave Kearney. He still had good games for us in him if he'd had one more year. It was the right time to let him go.

The situation is the same with Zebo. It's clear and obvious. More obvious because of his patchy workrate and motivation. And also because Munster have (I think) more depth in the back 3 than we did at the equivalent time.

What's not clear is whether Munster are willing to see it. They were merciless with Earls coming off a central contract and he was still in Ireland squads with an unimpeachable workrate and far better production.

A well run club with robust internal processes isn't going to extend Zebo. So whether Zebo gets a contract offer is an insight into the direction that their internal decision making has gone and which voices are listened to.

Do people think that Munster were right to have given Zebo this season and cut Earls?
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FtD
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Post by FtD »

ronk wrote: May 16th, 2024, 12:28 pm
artaneboy wrote: May 15th, 2024, 5:52 pm Yeah- good line, but so what? Joe is gone… long gone. Dave is gone too; great servant but gone from Leinster and Ireland. Zebo is still playing in Ireland .

Now- I’m not saying that Zebo is a wonderful player; still less a trainer, but he has significant talent still. He can’t be simply caricatured as just a fat boy.
Everyone liked Dave Kearney. He still had good games for us in him if he'd had one more year. It was the right time to let him go.

The situation is the same with Zebo. It's clear and obvious. More obvious because of his patchy workrate and motivation. And also because Munster have (I think) more depth in the back 3 than we did at the equivalent time.

What's not clear is whether Munster are willing to see it. They were merciless with Earls coming off a central contract and he was still in Ireland squads with an unimpeachable workrate and far better production.

A well run club with robust internal processes isn't going to extend Zebo. So whether Zebo gets a contract offer is an insight into the direction that their internal decision making has gone and which voices are listened to.

Do people think that Munster were right to have given Zebo this season and cut Earls?
They also have plenty of depth in the back three.

There have been rumours about Haley leaving, but as far as I can see he's still there next season, where they'll also have Calvin Nash, Shane Daly and Diarmuid Kilgallen all pushing for minutes, alongside Patrick Campbell and Liam Coombes as senior contracted back three players, and Ben O'Connor and Shay McCarthy in the academy (think McCarthy might be moving to a senior contract too).

If you overlay Jackman's rumour this week that they've extended an offer to an NIQ back three player (could just be Jackman spoofing) then it's hard to see Zebo being renewed tbh. Zebo's form has been good lately, but if you think that these contracts are typically done in the Oct-Dec window, when he featured very sparingly, it's not hard to believe he's probably done.
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artaneboy
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Post by artaneboy »

ronk wrote:
artaneboy wrote: May 15th, 2024, 5:52 pm Yeah- good line, but so what? Joe is gone… long gone. Dave is gone too; great servant but gone from Leinster and Ireland. Zebo is still playing in Ireland .

Now- I’m not saying that Zebo is a wonderful player; still less a trainer, but he has significant talent still. He can’t be simply caricatured as just a fat boy.
Everyone liked Dave Kearney. He still had good games for us in him if he'd had one more year. It was the right time to let him go.

The situation is the same with Zebo. It's clear and obvious. More obvious because of his patchy workrate and motivation. And also because Munster have (I think) more depth in the back 3 than we did at the equivalent time.

What's not clear is whether Munster are willing to see it. They were merciless with Earls coming off a central contract and he was still in Ireland squads with an unimpeachable workrate and far better production.

A well run club with robust internal processes isn't going to extend Zebo. So whether Zebo gets a contract offer is an insight into the direction that their internal decision making has gone and which voices are listened to.

Do people think that Munster were right to have given Zebo this season and cut Earls?
Probably, yes.

You’re setting it up for a negative response, but I believe on balance the relatively indolent- but occasionally inspiring Zebo gave them something this season that the earnest and dedicated trainer couldn’t/ didn’t.
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fourthirtythree
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Post by fourthirtythree »

ronk wrote: May 16th, 2024, 12:28 pm
artaneboy wrote: May 15th, 2024, 5:52 pm Yeah- good line, but so what? Joe is gone… long gone. Dave is gone too; great servant but gone from Leinster and Ireland. Zebo is still playing in Ireland .

Now- I’m not saying that Zebo is a wonderful player; still less a trainer, but he has significant talent still. He can’t be simply caricatured as just a fat boy.
Everyone liked Dave Kearney. He still had good games for us in him if he'd had one more year. It was the right time to let him go.

The situation is the same with Zebo. It's clear and obvious. More obvious because of his patchy workrate and motivation. And also because Munster have (I think) more depth in the back 3 than we did at the equivalent time.

What's not clear is whether Munster are willing to see it. They were merciless with Earls coming off a central contract and he was still in Ireland squads with an unimpeachable workrate and far better production.

A well run club with robust internal processes isn't going to extend Zebo. So whether Zebo gets a contract offer is an insight into the direction that their internal decision making has gone and which voices are listened to.

Do people think that Munster were right to have given Zebo this season and cut Earls?
Yes. Earls had a bit of an Indian summer with Ireland as an Ireland squad member but he looked completely done and in the coffee shop by the tail end of two seasons ago.

I was pretty surprised he even played on at all.

Comparing what Zebo has been doing in recent weeks is chalk and cheese.
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artaneboy
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Post by artaneboy »

Thornley has a very good article calling out the surrendering of the Aviva for five weeks for the UEFA Final. He correctly points out how ridiculous it was of the Aviva board to agree to that time period to allow for “clean” branding at the stadium. Those pining for the comfort of the Lansdowne Road venue after the trauma of the shift to Croker may be particularly disgruntled to learn the full details of the rationale for the exclusion period. It seems excessive and preciously unbalanced.

Gerry can be occasionally cliched- or pretentious in his writing stylings, but I’ve never got the visceral dislike of some here to him. In my opinion (phrase of the day), when he’s good; he’s very good, and when he bad; he’s still okay.
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Post by curates_egg »

artaneboy wrote: May 17th, 2024, 8:33 pm Thornley has a very good article calling out the surrendering of the Aviva for five weeks for the UEFA Final. He correctly points out how ridiculous it was of the Aviva board to agree to that time period to allow for “clean” branding at the stadium. Those pining for the comfort of the Lansdowne Road venue after the trauma of the shift to Croker may be particularly disgruntled to learn the full details of the rationale for the exclusion period. It seems excessive and preciously unbalanced.

Gerry can be occasionally cliched- or pretentious in his writing stylings, but I’ve never got the visceral dislike of some here to him. In my opinion (phrase of the dayImage), when he’s good; he’s very good, and when he bad; he’s still okay.
He’s always had X factor.
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Post by cormac »

As an Arsenal fan he couldn’t resist having a dig at Spurs in the same article. The article also suggests that any home URC QF will be played at the Aviva.
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artaneboy
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Post by artaneboy »

curates_egg wrote:
artaneboy wrote: May 17th, 2024, 8:33 pm Thornley has a very good article calling out the surrendering of the Aviva for five weeks for the UEFA Final. He correctly points out how ridiculous it was of the Aviva board to agree to that time period to allow for “clean” branding at the stadium. Those pining for the comfort of the Lansdowne Road venue after the trauma of the shift to Croker may be particularly disgruntled to learn the full details of the rationale for the exclusion period. It seems excessive and preciously unbalanced.

Gerry can be occasionally cliched- or pretentious in his writing stylings, but I’ve never got the visceral dislike of some here to him. In my opinion (phrase of the dayImage), when he’s good; he’s very good, and when he bad; he’s still okay.
He’s always had X factor.
Very good…Image
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paddyor
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Post by paddyor »

Haven’t read the article. I will say, the stadium got a massive wedge of govt money to get built. They have a responsibility to repay that in kind by helping out the local economy by brining in events like this imo. You can’t just dismiss it as a foreign sport or whatever he’s saying. This is like a once in a decade occurrence. The concert is a bigger peeve but that’s a symptom of there being no destination final for the URC.
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cormac
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Post by cormac »

paddyor wrote: May 17th, 2024, 10:57 pm Haven’t read the article.
Just a suggestion but maybe you should read the article before commenting on it. :roll:
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riocard911
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Post by riocard911 »

curates_egg wrote: May 17th, 2024, 9:44 pm
artaneboy wrote: May 17th, 2024, 8:33 pm Thornley has a very good article calling out the surrendering of the Aviva for five weeks for the UEFA Final. He correctly points out how ridiculous it was of the Aviva board to agree to that time period to allow for “clean” branding at the stadium. Those pining for the comfort of the Lansdowne Road venue after the trauma of the shift to Croker may be particularly disgruntled to learn the full details of the rationale for the exclusion period. It seems excessive and preciously unbalanced.

Gerry can be occasionally cliched- or pretentious in his writing stylings, but I’ve never got the visceral dislike of some here to him. In my opinion (phrase of the dayImage), when he’s good; he’s very good, and when he bad; he’s still okay.
He’s always had X factor.
Yes, that certain je ne sais quoi...😜
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artaneboy
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Post by artaneboy »

paddyor wrote:Haven’t read the article. I will say, the stadium got a massive wedge of govt money to get built. They have a responsibility to repay that in kind by helping out the local economy by brining in events like this imo. You can’t just dismiss it as a foreign sport or whatever he’s saying. This is like a once in a decade occurrence. The concert is a bigger peeve but that’s a symptom of there being no destination final for the URC.
Well, if you haven’t read the article, I suggest you should before commenting on what you think he might have said. Because you are not correct in your suppositions.
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chrismcc
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Post by chrismcc »

I'm not really sure the point Gerry is trying to make. I would imagine he doesn't know the extent of any commercial deals and the cost or income of the matches or concerts that may or may not take place in the aviva. However in his second paragraph he uses the phrase "After sucking the hind tit of winter for much of the season" it's like he's playing bingo with ridiculous phrases. Makes it hard to take anything he says seriously. He then goes on to say "before the play-offs take up the first three weekends in May" in the third paragraph. I understand he should have someone proof reading but mixing up May and June when the first 2 weekends of May have already passed is a basic mistake. He also went on to say "Next weekend’s Leinster-Toulouse final will break new ground as it takes place in a football stadium", I've tried my best to blank out the 2019 final in Newcastle stadium but I'm pretty sure it still happened. A lot of the article is just meandering gibberish and I'd hold the opinion of almost all posters here higher than GT and don't think using him as support of an opinion holds any weight what so ever. I did read the entire article and found it his typical bland cliche ridden nonsense.
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hugonaut
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Post by hugonaut »

I can't get over the lack of love for 'Red Light Means Danger' by Billy Ocean at the end of Molecast #127. All Time Banger.
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Post by Morf »

chrismcc wrote: May 18th, 2024, 12:51 am I'm not really sure the point Gerry is trying to make. I would imagine he doesn't know the extent of any commercial deals and the cost or income of the matches or concerts that may or may not take place in the aviva. However in his second paragraph he uses the phrase "After sucking the hind tit of winter for much of the season" it's like he's playing bingo with ridiculous phrases. Makes it hard to take anything he says seriously. He then goes on to say "before the play-offs take up the first three weekends in May" in the third paragraph. I understand he should have someone proof reading but mixing up May and June when the first 2 weekends of May have already passed is a basic mistake. He also went on to say "Next weekend’s Leinster-Toulouse final will break new ground as it takes place in a football stadium", I've tried my best to blank out the 2019 final in Newcastle stadium but I'm pretty sure it still happened. A lot of the article is just meandering gibberish and I'd hold the opinion of almost all posters here higher than GT and don't think using him as support of an opinion holds any weight what so ever. I did read the entire article and found it his typical bland cliche ridden nonsense.
Bilbao - San Mames anyone?
Perhaps the fresh whiff of cordite in his nostrils after a period hors du combat has his mind a bit fuzzy.
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curates_egg
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Post by curates_egg »

Morf wrote: May 18th, 2024, 4:19 am
chrismcc wrote: May 18th, 2024, 12:51 am I'm not really sure the point Gerry is trying to make. I would imagine he doesn't know the extent of any commercial deals and the cost or income of the matches or concerts that may or may not take place in the aviva. However in his second paragraph he uses the phrase "After sucking the hind tit of winter for much of the season" it's like he's playing bingo with ridiculous phrases. Makes it hard to take anything he says seriously. He then goes on to say "before the play-offs take up the first three weekends in May" in the third paragraph. I understand he should have someone proof reading but mixing up May and June when the first 2 weekends of May have already passed is a basic mistake. He also went on to say "Next weekend’s Leinster-Toulouse final will break new ground as it takes place in a football stadium", I've tried my best to blank out the 2019 final in Newcastle stadium but I'm pretty sure it still happened. A lot of the article is just meandering gibberish and I'd hold the opinion of almost all posters here higher than GT and don't think using him as support of an opinion holds any weight what so ever. I did read the entire article and found it his typical bland cliche ridden nonsense.
Bilbao - San Mames anyone?
Perhaps the fresh whiff of cordite in his nostrils after a period hors du combat has his mind a bit fuzzy.
Lyon, Marseilles.

Half of the last 8 finals have been in football stadiums!

You could argue Lyon and Marseilles are shared facilities, and Mames also is, and was built with a huge bung of public money that is still under investigation. But St James’ Park belongs to the club.
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artaneboy
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A whiff of Cordite

Post by artaneboy »

chrismcc wrote:I'm not really sure the point Gerry is trying to make. I would imagine he doesn't know the extent of any commercial deals and the cost or income of the matches or concerts that may or may not take place in the aviva. However in his second paragraph he uses the phrase "After sucking the hind tit of winter for much of the season" it's like he's playing bingo with ridiculous phrases. Makes it hard to take anything he says seriously. He then goes on to say "before the play-offs take up the first three weekends in May" in the third paragraph. I understand he should have someone proof reading but mixing up May and June when the first 2 weekends of May have already passed is a basic mistake. He also went on to say "Next weekend’s Leinster-Toulouse final will break new ground as it takes place in a football stadium", I've tried my best to blank out the 2019 final in Newcastle stadium but I'm pretty sure it still happened. A lot of the article is just meandering gibberish and I'd hold the opinion of almost all posters here higher than GT and don't think using him as support of an opinion holds any weight what so ever. I did read the entire article and found it his typical bland cliche ridden nonsense.
You don’t get the point of the article- really? Well let’s set aside that almost any article- any worth bothering with have more than one point, it’s clear (to me at least) what he’s saying. That is that, in terms, the depriving of the use by local sports, specifically rugby- to a local stadium for a protracted period of five weeks at this time of year- is ridiculous. That bit is really simple and he gives the reasons he believes that.

All this quoting of his ‘prose’ in a sneering way is secondary- and honestly, a bit childish. Any of us who post here could have our habits and repeated phrases used to knock our arguments if disagreeing posters wished to. But we don’t usually stoop to that. It’s sports journalism. That’s a genre that is famous for its cliches. Gerry’s no worse than most of them.

The greater truth that lies behind the article is the Aviva Stadium project was- and remains a compromise: an ill fitting partnership between two minority sports. The infrastructure itself is suboptimal and the arrangements to operate and fund it are of a piece of with the awkwardness of the original deal. Most of the times there’s some logic and reasonableness to decisions; in this case there’s not much sense or fairness to it.
Last edited by artaneboy on May 18th, 2024, 8:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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artaneboy
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Post by artaneboy »

hugonaut wrote:I can't get over the lack of love for 'Red Light Means Danger' by Billy Ocean at the end of Molecast #127. All Time Banger.
A Classic. Not having it dissed…
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johng
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Post by johng »

Ah lads. I know some of you weren't around at the time, but it's "Red light SPELLS danger" :)
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artaneboy
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Post by artaneboy »

I was around- and my error is unforgivable
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