A whiff of Cordite

A forum for true blue Leinster supporters to talk about and support their team

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Oldschool
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Post by Oldschool »

riocard911 wrote: May 27th, 2022, 12:49 am I was a big fan of Muhammed Ali as a kid. The Daddyman even took me to see him fight Blue Lewis in Croker. Later I was a massive fan of Mike Tyson. Some of the first and second round KO's he achieved were incomparable - to this day. He was one of the greatest fighters of all time, but loads of morons, incl. media hacks couldn't accept his brilliance. They wanted the 15 round slugfest. And that's what did for him in the end - the begrudgers. That's why I'd love us to give LAR a serious drubbing. Even just to put the thing out of sight in the first half à la Welford Road would be great, as that would ease my nerves enormously.
Muhammad Ali fought the system and came through undefeated. A giant amongst us, courageous both inside and outside the ring.
Leinster are fighting the system (the French and English dictate). Like Ali, there are many who begrudge them.
C'mon Leinster.
Mirror, Mirror on the Wall who's the greatest player of them all? It is Drico your majesty.
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riocard911
Shane Jennings
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Post by riocard911 »

Oldschool wrote: May 27th, 2022, 8:38 am The scribes are missing a huge opportunity or maybe don't want to see it.
This match is the classic David v Goliath.
The need for the game to find a saviour.
Brute force needs to be overcome for the sake of the future of the game.
Leinster can be that beacon of light, that bastion of quality that can rescue the game.
You get the picture.
+1!!!
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riocard911
Shane Jennings
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Post by riocard911 »

Oldschool wrote: May 27th, 2022, 8:50 am
riocard911 wrote: May 27th, 2022, 12:49 am I was a big fan of Muhammed Ali as a kid. The Daddyman even took me to see him fight Blue Lewis in Croker. Later I was a massive fan of Mike Tyson. Some of the first and second round KO's he achieved were incomparable - to this day. He was one of the greatest fighters of all time, but loads of morons, incl. media hacks couldn't accept his brilliance. They wanted the 15 round slugfest. And that's what did for him in the end - the begrudgers. That's why I'd love us to give LAR a serious drubbing. Even just to put the thing out of sight in the first half à la Welford Road would be great, as that would ease my nerves enormously.
Muhammad Ali fought the system and came through undefeated. A giant amongst us, courageous both inside and outside the ring.
Leinster are fighting the system (the French and English dictate). Like Ali, there are many who begrudge them.
C'mon Leinster.
+1. Ali was undoubtedly The Greatest.
joooooe
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Post by joooooe »

Oldschool wrote: May 27th, 2022, 8:38 am The scribes are missing a huge opportunity or maybe don't want to see it.
This match is the classic David v Goliath.
The need for the game to find a saviour.
Brute force needs to be overcome for the sake of the future of the game.
Leinster can be that beacon of light, that bastion of quality that can rescue the game.
You get the picture.
They'd rather try to paint La Rochelle as David
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Oldschoolsocks
Shane Horgan
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Post by Oldschoolsocks »

blockhead wrote: May 27th, 2022, 8:07 am Here's another reason not to like Leinster
Leinster's pipeline still pours private while outsiders struggle to stay afloat
If Tadhg Furlong’s calf doesn’t heal, there will be no Leinster Youth graduates in Euro final squad while Blackrock and St Michael’s are likely to have nine representatives
Leinster's pipeline still pours private while outsiders struggle to stay afloat
Fri, 27 May, 2022 - 06:44
Brendan O'Brien

Shane Horgan was the first. Add in Sean O’Brien and Tadhg Furlong and you have the Holy Trinity that has made it all the way from the Leinster Youths system and onto the exclusive roll call of just 54 players who have played for the province in one of their five European Cup finals to date.

Leinster have been operating a Youths system since the early 2000s and it has produced a string of excellent rugby players. Plenty have gone on to feature for their home province, more again found a home in Belfast, Limerick or Galway. Another cohort has etched out a professional career abroad.

Phil Lawlor has been working at the coalface of the Irish game for almost 30 years. Currently the Domestic Rugby Manager with Leinster, he is one part of a machine working away far from the blinding lights of a Stade Velodrome and which is cranking out a regular supply of professional players into the Irish landscape and beyond.

“We’re quite proud of the fact that we’ve had such a huge number of players through the club system," Lawlor says. "From a rugby point of view Leinster are providing over 40% of the professional rugby players in Ireland and the youth pathway is providing quite a number of them. They’re not your journeyman pros. They are adding huge value to that environment.”
No-one argues with that but the bald truth is that only 5.5% of the players that have played a part in previous deciders in Edinburgh, Cardiff, Twickenham, Bilbao and Newcastle - Leinster’s greatest of days - have been mined from a pathway that doesn’t involve the traditional fee-paying rugby schools.

It’s clearly not enough.

O’Brien was a world-class player, Furlong still is and Horgan was an exceptional wing who scored almost once every three games for Ireland. All three played in World Cups and for the British and Irish Lions but they are the exceptions to the rule for players discovered beyond the grounds of the Schools system.

Leo Cullen spoke about this only last week when stating Leinster are still only “scratching the surface” when it comes to the province’s playing pool. Trevor Hogan, now an elite player development officer with Leinster, says it will take more money and people on the ground to dig deeper. Lawlor goes along with that.

“What we need to do is we need to invest more in that programme," he argues. "We need to be able to give those players more contact hours, to give them better quality experience across all the capacities of player development: technical, tactical, physical, lifestyle, mental. And we need to be able to engage with them in their locality.”

Leinster have between 60-70 employees flitting about the province working on the four key pillars of promotion, participation, performance and high-performance. A player making the epic journey from minis through to academy and senior squad is propelled along those waters by a succession of coaches on and off the training field.

Kids enter the Leinster Youths system at the U15 grade where roughly 150 players are identified across the five regions, namely Midlands, North Midlands, Northeast, Southeast and Metro. Initially it involves one night a week of training and conditioning at a regional centre, an intensive summer programme and the inter-region Shane Horgan Cup.

From there it’s on to the U17 grade with its smaller pool and two nights a week of contact sessions. An open-ended system, players can drop out or drop in at any time. It’s only at the U19 staging post that those still in the Youths programme are integrated with their Schools counterparts and all of them come under the guise of elite development officers.

Whatever way we cut it, there is no escaping the reality that the best talents in the Club game are only entering the Leinster pathway at a time when their Schools counterparts are three years into secondary education and three years embedded into a Junior Cup cycle. That’s some head start.

So how do the Youth graduates stack up when they all finish their Leaving Cert?

“They’re not in a bad place,” said Lawlor. “The difference is contact time. The Schools player has that four or five days a week of rugby activity. And sometimes with a Schools player it is twice a day. It is an environment very conducive to development and maximising your ability.

“That’s not to say that the Club player doesn’t have the same potential and, for us, this is the challenge for our high-performance guys in identifying that potential and working with that potential to bring it to the next level, which is why we have that sub-academy environment.”

The demographics of Leinster’s squads have changed in one way but not in another.

Go back through any of their previous Heineken and Champions Cup final appearances and half the squads were private-schools alumni, another quarter was made up of non-Irish recruits and the rest came either from one of other provinces or they were a Horgan or an O’Brien.

If Tadhg Furlong’s calf doesn’t heal fully, and Ciaran Frawley fails to get the nod to start on the bench against La Rochelle, then Leinster will actually line up here in Marseille tomorrow with no graduate of the Youths stream in their matchday 23 for one of these finals for the very first time. Not ideal.

If this is a sign that they are becoming even more reliant on their traditional talent base then consider as well the fact that they are leaning more and more on just two of those institutions. Blackrock and St Michael’s, between them, are likely to have nine players in this weekend’s squad, compared to seven from the other schools.

There isn’t another club in the world that can mine the talent Leinster does from those sides that contest the province’s Schools Cup every year but you don’t need a business degree to understand that greater diversification would be key and there are over 70 clubs affiliated to the Leinster branch around the 12 counties with plenty more to offer.

“That takes a lot of work and a lot of cooperation from a lot of people,” said Lawlor, taking up the theme, “but if we just leave it in the hands of a certain cohort and say, ‘well, you know what, that’s where we’ll tie ourselves in to’, what happens if that cohort begins to fail?”

Unlikely, obviously, but imagine both pathways producing at full tilt.
So he’s not 100% wrong here, but he’s less right now than he would have been say 10 or 15 years ago.

Just from reading MI’s lists the number of clubmen joining the academy is pretty healthy and that they’re getting a fair crack of the whip.
Last edited by Oldschoolsocks on May 27th, 2022, 9:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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riocard911
Shane Jennings
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Post by riocard911 »

A bit of appreciation for the rugby Leinster have played this season from the Grauniad's Robert Kitson:


Leinster’s savage beauty could make them Europe’s greatest champions

Leinster could draw level with Toulouse’s five titles this weekend and the scary thing is they are still improving

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/ ... -champions
mildlyinterested
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Post by mildlyinterested »

riocard911 wrote: May 27th, 2022, 9:39 am A bit of appreciation for the rugby Leinster have played this season from the Grauniad's Robert Kitson:


Leinster’s savage beauty could make them Europe’s greatest champions

Leinster could draw level with Toulouse’s five titles this weekend and the scary thing is they are still improving

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/ ... -champions
setting us up nicely for a fall all this positive media
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the spoofer
Shane Horgan
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Post by the spoofer »

Molecast was excellent this week.
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Avenger
Seán Cronin
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Post by Avenger »

Yeah. I’m new enough to it but it was very good.
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Oldschoolsocks
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Post by Oldschoolsocks »

Agreed, it’s a good podcast
SoupyNorman
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Post by SoupyNorman »

The rugby weekly podcast doing something I have hardly ever heard. Actually giving Leo Cullen his dues with some analysis on his role as Head Coach.
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riocard911
Shane Jennings
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Post by riocard911 »

SoupyNorman wrote: May 27th, 2022, 4:23 pm The rugby weekly podcast doing something I have hardly ever heard. Actually giving Leo Cullen his dues with some analysis on his role as Head Coach.
To give him his due, Donal Lenihan has been complimenting Leo's man-management skills for a while now - and that in the highest terms. The funniest bit was right at the start, when Niall Tracey proclaimed, it was gonna be Munster-free show - for a change - and Tremenjous retortet "We've exorcised the demons. Van Graan, drive on!" :lol: :lol: :lol:
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blockhead
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Post by blockhead »

Ugo Monye in the IT & Guardian.
By contrast, the French calendar is relentless. The fact that Victor Vito is absent for the final, having picked up an injury in a must-win league match against Stade Français last week, is a case in point. In the URC, Leinster don’t have that concern. It would be disrespectful to call it a second team because it was still littered with international players and they still came out victorious, but the fact they could rest the side who line up in Marseille against Munster last week is an obvious advantage.
Ugo, did you see the team that Lar Rochelle put out? Obviously not.
Jesus lad, do some research, just a little.
Must do better Ugo.
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Morf
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Post by Morf »

Gary Doyle on Friday's 42 Rugby Weekly does some incredible mental gymnastics by presenting Ulster and Munster's worst moments and as such both coaches have really made great progress.
I mean from losing to Stade in 2016 and Alan Quinlan calling them 'borderline disgraceful' to losing to Leinster B/C with a full squad in a must win game is a huge improvement for Munster and van Graan /sarcasm. The Ulster stuff was just a cover so he could make his point in a less obvious fashion. He even managed to sneak in the achievement of ROG bringing success to La Rochelle to parallel his point.
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cormac
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Post by cormac »

Morf wrote: June 6th, 2022, 5:21 am Gary Doyle on Friday's 42 Rugby Weekly does some incredible mental gymnastics by presenting Ulster and Munster's worst moments and as such both coaches have really made great progress.
I mean from losing to Stade in 2016 and Alan Quinlan calling them 'borderline disgraceful' to losing to Leinster B/C with a full squad in a must win game is a huge improvement for Munster and van Graan /sarcasm. The Ulster stuff was just a cover so he could make his point in a less obvious fashion. He even managed to sneak in the achievement of ROG bringing success to La Rochelle to parallel his point.
He is the king of talking absolute guff on their weekend preview show whenever he's on. He was talking up Glasgow as a serious threat to Leinster on Friday.
Look out Itchy, he's Irish
leinsterforever
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Post by leinsterforever »

I can't read his articles. Most of the points he makes don't stand up to any kind of scrutiny.
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LeRouxIsPHat
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

I just read a typically snide preview of yesterday’s Ireland game by Gav Cummiskey. Nice to put him in his place with a thumping 3-0 win :lol:
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LeRouxIsPHat
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

LeRouxIsPHat wrote: June 12th, 2022, 4:07 pm I just read a typically snide preview of yesterday’s Ireland game by Gav Cummiskey. Nice to put him in his place with a thumping 3-0 win :lol:
Catching up on the papers from this week and in his match report he said “mercifully, Shane Duffy is done for the summer after another yellow card”. How long before the football crowd boot him out of this role? Seriously what a w&%ker :lol:

I see Leo spoke about how power is an issue for us as well. When Leo admits it I think it might be time for everyone to accept that it’s a problem.
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LeinsterLeader
Seán Cronin
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Post by LeinsterLeader »

LeRouxIsPHat wrote: June 18th, 2022, 3:05 pm
LeRouxIsPHat wrote: June 12th, 2022, 4:07 pm I just read a typically snide preview of yesterday’s Ireland game by Gav Cummiskey. Nice to put him in his place with a thumping 3-0 win :lol:
Catching up on the papers from this week and in his match report he said “mercifully, Shane Duffy is done for the summer after another yellow card”. How long before the football crowd boot him out of this role? Seriously what a w&%ker :lol:

I see Leo spoke about how power is an issue for us as well. When Leo admits it I think it might be time for everyone to accept that it’s a problem.
This may sound like a smart or sarcastic question LRIP but it isn't, it's a genuine question. Are there teams out there dealing with bigger sides well (or at least better then us) or is this not the problem of every underpowered or undersized team?
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Dexter
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Re: A whiff of Cordite

Post by Dexter »

LeRouxIsPHat wrote: June 18th, 2022, 3:05 pm
LeRouxIsPHat wrote: June 12th, 2022, 4:07 pm I just read a typically snide preview of yesterday’s Ireland game by Gav Cummiskey. Nice to put him in his place with a thumping 3-0 win :lol:
Catching up on the papers from this week and in his match report he said “mercifully, Shane Duffy is done for the summer after another yellow card”. How long before the football crowd boot him out of this role? Seriously what a w&%ker :lol:

I see Leo spoke about how power is an issue for us as well. When Leo admits it I think it might be time for everyone to accept that it’s a problem.
Leo corrected himself.
Dont Panic!
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