hugonaut wrote: ↑October 15th, 2021, 6:04 pm
Berti Newman I don't know enough about. I'm not as well informed as Mildly – nowhere near as informed – but this guy was completely under the radar for me. I think that has a lot to do with restrictions due to COVID-19; there just weren't many games going ahead. I like Birch and really rate him as a pundit, but he's the main guy who has been very high on LBN ... and he's an alumnus of the same school, was the one who organised his trial with Lam and [I'm pretty sure] was in school in Newbridge with LBN's dad.
This is a key point. Jackman has done a brilliant job as a cheerleader for Berti Newman and has created this hype around a guy most of us have never seen play and who moved to Ireland 4 years ago and hasn't played Senior Cup in 6th year.
The choice was whether to offer him a straight academy contract and take that risk or take the risk of losing a guy with that fairly low profile.
Clearly he needs the security and money of a 3 year guaranteed contract according to what Jackman said on The42 podcast this week, so he's right to take it.
But it's being made out as this huge loss of a guy mainly because Jackman (a guy who is incredibly biased clearly) has been talking so profusely about a 17 year old. 'The best schools player in 20 years'? Really?
You also need to add in the question of which academy year 1 player do you lose because he gets a contract? Assuming it's a back, do you chop Chris Cosgrave (a guy who has been tipped for big things and has played a lot of U20 as well as for the senior team) or Rob Russell (who has already played for the senior team). It's a zero sum game so conversations about keeping this guy have to include that point too.
https://youtu.be/G4KJDf5hKLA
Skip to 27:27 in that video. Great offload from Newman. Played well in that campaign. Pitty we didn’t see more of him due to covid. I also remember in a Junior Cup game he got an intercept and ran the pitch and won Newbridge the game.
But to put him as the best schools player in 20 years is an outrageous statement when he only had one season of senior cup rugby.
I'm talking about retaining the top talents which Martin and Berti Newman fall into, not giving contracts to every player who gets an offer from elsewhere.
It's all hypothetical anyway, I dont expect Leinster to change much, they seem content to lose some talent in order to keep the current system in place.
Interesting you've been so bullish on LBN being a 'top talent' and 'one of the most talented underage players in the province' when you said he 'will struggle given his size' and will have 'an uphill battle at pro level' in January?
If you take a load of guys in the same position into the academy, you really struggle to find games to progress them in. We did it with centres in the past - we took in Tom Daly, Tom Farrell and Steve Crosbie one year and then Garry, Locko and Harry Brewer the next.
And finally, to return to the present day, we brought in Osborne, who is absolutely blue chip. He's already starting Pro14/URC games as a teenager with very little fanfare. He just belongs. It's a hell of a long time since I've seen such an accomplished teenage back for Leinster. I'd have to go back to Rob Kearney and Luke Fitzgerald days, 15-16 years ago. Ringrose didn't debut until he was 20yrs 9mths, Larmour when he was 20yrs 3 mths ... Osborne was 19yrs and 3mths when he made his Leinster debut: a full year younger than Jordan, a year and a half younger than Garry. In terms of centres, he's the pick of the litter, without a doubt.
EDIT: for clarity regarding Osborne timeline
4 out of 6 provincial pros, that’s a good investment. Crosbie didn’t make it but was worth a shot. Brewer a little more hyped and maybe an element of wishful thinking but it’s hard for us to develop big centres. We’ve seen a few guys rely on size and power but then struggle as they move up, sometimes through injuries.
LH Prop
Marcus Hanan(21/Clane RFC/Old Belvedere) - inj
Temi Lasisi(20/Enniscorthy RFC/Lansdowne) - inj
Jack Boyle(19/St. Michaels/UCD) - inj
--
Ben Popplewell(U20/Wexford RFC/Lansdowne)
Oisín Michel(U20/Cill Dara RFC/Lansdowne)
George Hadden(U19/Gorey RFC/Clontarf)
TH Prop
Vakh Abdaladze(25/Coolmine/Clontarf) - started at 3.
--
Mick McCormack(St. St. Marys/St. Marys) - started at 3
Thomas Connolly(Galwegians/DUFC) - started at 3
Rory McGuire (U20/Blackrock College/UCD) - bench.
JJ Hession (U20/St. Michaels/Lansdowne)
Dylan Lynch(U20/Boyne RFC/Clontarf)
Hooker
John McKee(21/Campbell/Old Belvedere) - started at 2, 2 tries.
Lee Barron(20/St. Michaels/DUFC) - inj
--
Howard Noonan (U20/Greystones RFC-Temple Carrig/Old Wesley) - bench.
Barry Gray (U20/Carlow RFC/Clontarf) - bench.
Lock
Jack Dunne(23/St. Michaels/DUFC) - bench
Charlie Ryan(22/Blackrock/UCD) - inj
Joe McCarthy(20/Blackrock/DUFC) - inj
--
Ruairi Clarke (U20/Cill Dara RFC/Lansdowne)
Mark Morrissey (U20/Blackrock College/UCD) - inj
Conor O'Tighearnaigh (U20/St Michael’s College/UCD)
Sean Walsh (U20/Seapoint RFC/Lansdowne) - inj
Paul Deeny (U20/Wexford RFC/Clontarf)
Jim Peters(U19/Portlaoise RFC/Clontarf)
Lock-Blindside
Brian Deeny(21/Wexford RFC/Clontarf) - started at 5.
Alex Soroka(20/Belvedere/Clontarf) - inj
--
Diarmuid Mangan (U19/Newbridge/UCD) - started at 5.
Daniel Leane(U19/St. Marys/St. Marys) - bench
Stephen Woods (U20/St. Michaels/DUFC)
Fionn McWey (U20/Portloaise RFC-Roscrea/Old Belvedere)
Backrow
Martin Moloney(22/Athy RFC/Clontarf) - started at 6, 1 try.
Sean O'Brien(21/Blackrock/UCD) - started at 6.
Mark Hernan(21/St. Michaels/Lansdowne) - inj
--
Donough Lawlor (U20/Newbridge/Lansdowne) - inj
Luke Callinan (U20/Castleknock/Lansdowne)
Dylan Ryan (U20/St Michael’s/DUFC)
James Culhane (U20/Blackrock/UCD)
Scrumhalf
Cormac Foley(22/St. Gerards/Lansdowne) - started at 9, 1 try.
Ben Murphy(20/Pres Bray/Old Wesley) - inj
--
Conor Duggan(U20/Castleknock/MU Barnhall)
Oisin Devitt (U20/Clongowes/Old Belvedere)
Michael Moloney (U20/Blackrock/UCD) - inj
Outhalf
David Hawkshaw(22/Belvedere/Clontarf) - started at 10, 4 pens.
--
Charlie Tector(U20/Kilkenny/Lansdowne) - started at 10, 3 cons.
Sam Prendergast(U19/Newbridge/Lansdowne)
Centre
Liam Turner(22/Blackrock/DUFC) - started at 13.
Jamie Osborne(19/Naas RFC/Naas)
--
David Dooley(U19/Tullamore RFC/MU Barnhall) - started at 12
Conor Gibney(U20/Mullingar RFC/DUFC)
Ben Brownlee(U20/Blackrock/UCD)
Daniel Hawkshaw(U20/Belvedere/Clontarf)
Back Three
Rob Russell(22/St. Michaels/DUFC) - started at 14.
Andrew Smith(21/St. Michaels/Clontarf) - inj
Niall Comerford(21/Blackrock/UCD) - irish 7s
Max O'Reilly(21/St. Gerards/DUFC) - inj
Chris Cosgrave(20/St. Michaels/UCD) - irish 7s
--
Aitzol Arenzana-King (U20/Balbriggan RFC-CUS/Clontarf) - bench
Fionn Gibbons(U20/Castleknock/UCD)
Dylan O’Grady(U20/Belvedere/UCD)
Callum O’Reilly(U20/St Michael’s/DUFC)
Scott Milne(U20/Tullamore RFC/DUFC)
Shane Mallon(U20/Longford RFC-Roscrea/UCD) - inj
Last edited by mildlyinterested on October 22nd, 2021, 7:42 am, edited 3 times in total.
Prop
Tom Stewart (St Michael’s College/Leinster)
Andrew Sparrow (St Mary’s College/Leinster)
Ben Howard (St Michael’s College/Leinster)
Hooker
Flyn Pyper (Presentation College Bray/Leinster)
Lock
Michael Colreavy (Blackrock College/Leinster)
Backrow
Inigo Cruise O’Brien (Blackrock College/Leinster)
Stephen Smyth (Kilkenny College/Leinster)
Richard Whelan (CC Roscrea/Leinster)
Scrumhalf
Oliver Coffey (Blackrock College/Leinster)
Outhalf
Jack Murphy (Presentation College Bray/Leinster)
Sean Naughton (Kilkenny College/Leinster)
Outside Backs
Hugo McLaughlin (Gonzaga College/Leinster)
Luke Kritzinger (Blackrock College/Leinster)
Sam Berman (St Michael’s College/Leinster)
David Colbert (Gonzaga College/Leinster)
Wilhelm de Klerk (St Michael’s College/Leinster)
Ruben Moloney (Blackrock College/Leinster)
Finn Tracy (Presentation College Bray/Leinster)
Last edited by mildlyinterested on October 26th, 2021, 4:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
LH Prop
George Hadden (Gorey RFC/Clontarf RFC/U19)
Adam Duffy (Dundalk RFC/Lansdowne FC/U19)
Tom Stewart (St Michael’s College/U18)
Oisin Lynch (Boyne RFC/U18)
TH Prop
Paddy McCarthy (Blackrock College/U19)
Andrew Sparrow (St Mary’s College/U18)
Ben Howard (St Michael’s College/U18)
Adam Deay (Tullow RFC/U18)
Hooker
Gus McCarthy (Blackrock College/U19)
Tom Barry (Gonzaga/Lansdowne FC/U19)
Flyn Pyper (Pres Bray/U18)
Niall O’Hanlon (Athy RFC/U18)
Lock
Max Dunne (St. Michael's College/DUFC/U19)
Jim Peters (Portlaoise RFC/Clontarf RFC/U19)
Michael Colreavy (Blackrock College/U18)
James O’Loughlin (Naas RFC/U18)
Backrow
Diarmuid Mangan (Newbridge College/UCD/U19)*
Josh O’Hare (Dundalk RFC/Lansdowne/U19)
Dan Carroll (St Michael’s College/U19)
Inigo Cruise O’Brien (Blackrock College/U18)
Stephen Smyth (Kilkenny College/U18)
Richard Whelan (CC Roscrea/U18)
Nikke Moelders (Wicklow RFC/U18)
Donagh McCarrick (Coolmine RFC/U18)
Grant Palmer (Wexford Wanderers RFC/U18)
Scrumhalf
Fintan Gunne (St Michael’s College/U19)
Oliver Coffey (Blackrock College/U18)
Andrew Doyle (Athy RFC/U18)
Outhalf
Sam Prendergast (Newbridge College/Lansdowne/U19)*
Jack Murphy (Pres Bray/U18)
Sean Naughton (Kilkenny College/U18)
Tom Larke (Old Wesley RFC/U18)
Centre
David Dooley (Tullamore RFC/MU Barnhall RFC/U19)
Hugh Cooney (Blackrock College/U19)
Charlie Sheridan (Naas RFC/U18)
Senan Phelan (St Mary’s RFC/U18)
Luke Kritzinger (Blackrock College/U18)
Sam Berman (St Michael’s College/U18)
Wilhelm de Klerk (St Michael’s College/U18)
Back Three
Noah Sheridan (Wicklow RFC/U19)
Jed Tormey (Belvedere College/U19)
David Colbert (Gonzaga College/U18)
Ruben Moloney (Blackrock College/U18)
Hugo McLaughlin (Gonzaga College/U18)
David Donohue (Lansdowne FC/U18)
Finn Tracy (Pres Bray/U18)
OneLungDavy wrote: ↑October 29th, 2021, 11:54 am
I don't see Spicers name anywhere, has the hype train been derailed already?
I wasn't really expecting him to be there considering he didnt start for leinster schools, if he is indeed u17 then he has another year at this level and has time to develop.. or he could be injured, who knows. Either way he is clearly a project and not another James Ryan.
mildlyinterested wrote: ↑October 29th, 2021, 11:33 am
Ireland Under-18 Clubs (v Italy):
15. Ethan Graham (Monaghan RFC/Ulster)
14. Hugh Gavin (Galwegians RFC/Connacht) 13. Charlie Sheridan (Naas RFC/Leinster)
12. Michael Burnett (City of Armagh RFC/Ulster)
11. Sean Fox (Corinthians RFC/Connacht) 10. Tom Larke (Old Wesley RFC/Leinster)
9. Kyle Read (Midleton RFC/Munster)
1. Oisin Lynch (Boyne RFC/Leinster)
2. Niall O’Hanlon (Athy RFC/Leinster)
3. Charlie Byrne (Buccaneers RFC/Connacht) 4. James O’Loughlin (Naas RFC/Leinster)(Captain)
5. Jarlath Gleeson (London Irish/IQ Rugby)
6. Paddy Jones (Sale/IQ Rugby)
7. Sean Edogbo (Cobh Pirates RFC/Munster) 8. Grant Palmer (Wexford Wanderers RFC/Leinster)
Replacements:
16. Sam Green (Malone RFC/Ulster)
17. Sean Hopkins (Ballina RFC/Connacht) 18. Adam Deay (Tullow RFC/Leinster)
19. Donagh McCarrick (Coolmine RFC/Leinster)
20. Niklas Moelders (Wicklow RFC/Leinster)
21. Andrew Doyle (Athy RFC/Leinster)
22. Senan Phelan (St Marys RFC/Leinster)
23. David Donohue (Landsdowne FC/Leinster)
24. Kieran Kennedy (Waterford City RFC/Munster)
U18 result
Italy 42 - 10 Ireland. Very poor result. Was only 12 - 10 at half time. Possibly fitness being a factor? The Italians have it up on youtube but I have yet to watch it.
LH Prop
Peter Dooley (26/Birr RFC/Lansdowne) - bench, 1 try.
Marcus Hanan(21/Clane RFC/Old Belvedere) - inj
Temi Lasisi(20/Enniscorthy RFC/Lansdowne) - inj
Jack Boyle(19/St. Michaels/UCD) - bench.
--
Ben Popplewell(U20/Wexford RFC/Lansdowne) - started at 1.
Oisín Michel(U20/Cill Dara RFC/Lansdowne)
George Hadden(U19/Gorey RFC/Clontarf)
TH Prop
Vakh Abdaladze(25/Coolmine/Clontarf) - started at 3.
--
Mick McCormack(St. St. Marys/St. Marys) - started at 3
Thomas Connolly(Galwegians/DUFC) - started at 3
Rory McGuire (U20/Blackrock College/UCD) - bench.
JJ Hession (U20/St. Michaels/Lansdowne)
Dylan Lynch(U20/Boyne RFC/Clontarf)
Hooker
John McKee(21/Campbell/Old Belvedere) - started at 2.
Lee Barron(20/St. Michaels/DUFC) - inj
--
Howard Noonan (U20/Greystones RFC-Temple Carrig/Old Wesley) - bench.
Barry Gray (U20/Carlow RFC/Clontarf) - bench.
Tom Barry (U19/Gonzaga/Lansdowne)
Lock
Jack Dunne(23/St. Michaels/DUFC) - bench
Charlie Ryan(22/Blackrock/UCD) - inj
Joe McCarthy(20/Blackrock/DUFC) - inj
--
Ruairi Clarke (U20/Cill Dara RFC/Lansdowne)
Mark Morrissey (U20/Blackrock College/UCD) - started at 4.
Conor O'Tighearnaigh (U20/St Michael’s College/UCD) - started at 5 for UCC u20a.
Sean Walsh (U20/Seapoint RFC/Lansdowne) - inj
Jim Peters(U19/Portlaoise RFC/Clontarf)
Lock-Blindside
Brian Deeny(21/Wexford RFC/Clontarf) - started at 5.
Alex Soroka(20/Belvedere/Clontarf) - inj
--
Diarmuid Mangan (U19/Newbridge/UCD) - started at 6, 1 try.
Daniel Leane(U19/St. Marys/St. Marys)
Stephen Woods (U20/St. Michaels/DUFC)
Fionn McWey (U20/Portloaise RFC-Roscrea/Old Belvedere) - bench
Backrow
Martin Moloney(22/Athy RFC/Clontarf) - started at 6, 1 try.
Sean O'Brien(21/Blackrock/UCD) - started at 7.
Mark Hernan(21/St. Michaels/Lansdowne) - inj
--
Donough Lawlor (U20/Newbridge/Lansdowne)
Paul Deeny (U20/Wexford RFC/Clontarf)
Luke Callinan (U20/Castleknock/Lansdowne)
Dylan Ryan (U20/St Michael’s/DUFC)
James Culhane (U20/Blackrock/UCD) - started at 8 for UCD u20a.
Outhalf
David Hawkshaw(22/Belvedere/Clontarf) - inj
--
Charlie Tector(U20/Kilkenny/Lansdowne) - started at 10, 2 pens, 2 cons.
Sam Prendergast(U19/Newbridge/Lansdowne)
Centre
Liam Turner(22/Blackrock/DUFC) - irish 7's
Jamie Osborne(19/Naas RFC/Naas)
--
David Dooley(U19/Tullamore RFC/MU Barnhall) - started at 12
Conor Gibney(U20/Mullingar RFC/DUFC)
Ben Brownlee(U20/Blackrock/UCD)
Daniel Hawkshaw(U20/Belvedere/Clontarf)
Back Three
Rob Russell(22/St. Michaels/DUFC) - started at 15.
Andrew Smith(21/St. Michaels/Clontarf) - inj
Niall Comerford(21/Blackrock/UCD) - irish 7s
Max O'Reilly(21/St. Gerards/DUFC) - inj
Chris Cosgrave(20/St. Michaels/UCD) - started at 15.
--
Aitzol Arenzana-King (U20/Balbriggan RFC-CUS/Clontarf) - bench
Fionn Gibbons(U20/Castleknock/UCD) - started at 13 for UCD u20a, 4 tries.
Dylan O’Grady(U20/Belvedere/UCD) - started at 15 for UCD u20a, 1 try.
Callum O’Reilly(U20/St Michael’s/DUFC)
Scott Milne(U20/Tullamore RFC/DUFC)
Shane Mallon(U20/Longford RFC-Roscrea/UCD) - inj
Last edited by mildlyinterested on November 2nd, 2021, 3:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
