Leinster Academy 2021-22

[mildlyinterested]

Callow enough academy picture at the moment in parts.

Current year 3s are C Ryan, Deeny, M Moloney, Foley, Turner

Can see all of them getting released to be honest. Possibly Foley gets a dev deal while they see what stocks are like behind him coming up.

Of course things change quickly and they might get a chance to play their way into a contract.

Of the year 1s and 2s I don't see anyone bar Osborne who might be considered for early promotion.

Yeah its not a vintage group, Deeny, Moloney and Ryan have missed loads of time with injury.

Releasing someone of Deenys size and athleticism might be a bad move, he is still only 2, I'd give him another year.

Moloney might stay around if there are several older backrows who leave.

No idea on Ryan given his injury status.

Foley has been playing well this season in the AIL, hard to know what will happen there.

Turner isn't really good enough and Osborne will take any centre contracts that open up.

[hugonaut]

Callow enough academy picture at the moment in parts.

Current year 3s are C Ryan, Deeny, M Moloney, Foley, Turner

Can see all of them getting released to be honest. Possibly Foley gets a dev deal while they see what stocks are like behind him coming up.

Of course things change quickly and they might get a chance to play their way into a contract.

Of the year 1s and 2s I don't see anyone bar Osborne who might be considered for early promotion.

Yeah its not a vintage group, Deeny, Moloney and Ryan have missed loads of time with injury.

Releasing someone of Deenys size and athleticism might be a bad move, he is still only 2, I'd give him another year.

Moloney might stay around if there are several older backrows who leave.

No idea on Ryan given his injury status.

Foley has been playing well this season in the AIL, hard to know what will happen there.

Turner isn't really good enough and Osborne will take any centre contracts that open up.

It was a really small intake in the first place: just five players [source: https://www.leinsterrugby.ie/leinster-r ... confirmed/]

With the exception of Deeny [b.2000], all of those guys were born in 1999, thus U20 in 2019. We have got a good crop from that year in Baird [test capped], Harry Byrne [test capped], Scott Penny and Tom Clarkson, the latter two who will be capped at test level in the future.

Extremely difficult to see where the gametime is going to come from at senior level to see the rest of those guys progress – in my opinion we don't have sufficient gametime for players like Scott Penny [at openside, Moloney's position] or Jack Dunne [at lock, Ryan and Deeny's position]. The season has shrunk so much.

From my perspective, establishing/helping to establish a minor league competition is the Leinster Branch's most pressing issue, and should be a very big issue for the IRFU. There are only so many places in Connacht for Leinster players to go to ... soon you will be losing quality players to English and French leagues and not getting them back.

[mildlyinterested]

Callow enough academy picture at the moment in parts.

Current year 3s are C Ryan, Deeny, M Moloney, Foley, Turner

Can see all of them getting released to be honest. Possibly Foley gets a dev deal while they see what stocks are like behind him coming up.

Of course things change quickly and they might get a chance to play their way into a contract.

Of the year 1s and 2s I don't see anyone bar Osborne who might be considered for early promotion.

Yeah its not a vintage group, Deeny, Moloney and Ryan have missed loads of time with injury.

Releasing someone of Deenys size and athleticism might be a bad move, he is still only 2, I'd give him another year.

Moloney might stay around if there are several older backrows who leave.

No idea on Ryan given his injury status.

Foley has been playing well this season in the AIL, hard to know what will happen there.

Turner isn't really good enough and Osborne will take any centre contracts that open up.

It was a really small intake in the first place: just five players [source: https://www.leinsterrugby.ie/leinster-r ... confirmed/]

With the exception of Deeny [b.2000], all of those guys were born in 1999, thus U20 in 2019. We have got a good crop from that year in Baird [test capped], Harry Byrne [test capped], Scott Penny and Tom Clarkson, the latter two who will be capped at test level in the future.

Extremely difficult to see where the gametime is going to come from at senior level to see the rest of those guys progress – in my opinion we don't have sufficient gametime for players like Scott Penny [at openside, Moloney's position] or Jack Dunne [at lock, Ryan and Deeny's position]. The season has shrunk so much.

From my perspective, establishing/helping to establish a minor league competition is the Leinster Branch's most pressing issue, and should be a very big issue for the IRFU. There are only so many places in Connacht for Leinster players to go to ... soon you will be losing quality players to English and French leagues and not getting them back.

Do players like Penny and Dunne stay with Leinster beyond this season? I don't know.

[mildlyinterested]

https://www.irishrugby.ie/2021/12/09/ir ... -irfu-hpc/

Ireland U18 Schools
Sam Berman (St Michael’s College/Leinster)
Jacob Boyd (RBAI/Ulster)
Oliver Coffey (Blackrock College/Leinster)
David Colbert (Gonzaga College/Leinster)
Max Flynn (CC Roscrea/Corinthians/Connacht)
Brian Gleeson (Rockwell College/Munster)
Sean Hopkins (Ballina RFC/Connacht)
Joe Hopes (Campbell College/Ulster)
Stephen Kiely (Castletroy College/Munster)
Luke Kritzinger (Blackrock College/Leinster)
Harry Long (Ard Scoil ris/Munster)
Ben McFarlane (Methodist College/Ulster)
Hugo McLaughlin (Gonzaga College/Leinster)
Jack Murphy (Presentation College Bray/Leinster)
Sean Naughton (Kilkenny College/Leinster)
David Novak (Christian Brothers College/Munster)
Kamil Novak (Christian Brothers College/Munster)
Evan O’Connell (Castletroy College/Munster)
Ben O’Connor (PBC/Munster)
Mikey O’Reilly (St Michael’s College/Leinster)
Jake O’Riordan (St Munchins College/Munster)
Danny Sheehan (PBC/Munster)
Stephen Smyth (Kilkenny College/Leinster)
Zac Solomon (CCB/Ulster)
Andrew Sparrow (St Mary’s College/Leinster)
Tom Stewart (St Michael’s College/Leinster)
Josh Stevens (Methodist College/Ulster)
Richard Whelan (CC Roscrea/Leinster)

Ireland U18s Club & Schools
Tadhg Brophy (Newbridge College/Leinster)
Michael Burnett (City of Armagh RFC/Ulster)
Jody Brown (Gonzaga College/Leinster)
Charlie Byrne (Buccaneers RFC/Connacht)
Emmet Calvey (Ard Scoil Ris/Munster)
Joseph Coffey (CC Roscrea/Munster)
Michael Colreavy (Blackrock College/Leinster)
Sean Condon (PBC/Munster)
James Conroy (CC Roscrea/Leinster)
Adam Deay (Tullow RFC/Leinster)
Sean Edogbo (Cobh Pirates RFC/Munster)
Greg Fitzgerald (CC Roscrea/Leinster)
Sean Fox (Corinthians RFC/Connacht)
Ethan Graham (Monaghan RFC/Ulster)
Hugh Gavin (Galwegians RFC/Connacht)
Oluwanifemi Giwa (Cashel RFC/Munster)
Jarlath Gleeson (London Irish/IQ Rugby)
Ben Howard (St Michael’s College/Leinster)
Lucas Kenny (CCB/Ulster)
Tom Larke (Old Wesley RFC/Leinster)
Flynn Longstaff (Campbell College/Ulster)
Oisin Lynch (Boyne RFC/Leinster)
Stephen McMahon (Gonzaga College/Leinster)
Johnny McCracken (CCB/Ulster)
James McKillop (Foyle College/Ulster)
Blayze Molloy (Ballina RFC/Clongowes/Connacht)
Cillian O’Connor (St Munchins/Munster)
Niall O’Hanlon (Athy RFC/Leinster)
James O’Loughlin (Naas RFC/Leinster)
Grant Palmer (Wexford Wanderers RFC/Leinster)
Flyn Pyper (Presentation College Bray/Leinster)
Kyle Read (Midleton RFC/Munster)
Jacob Sheahan (PBC/Munster)
Jack Somers (Crescent College/Munster)
Eoin Smyth (Midleton RFC/Munster)
Oisin Toland (Castletroy College/Munster)
Finn Treacy (Presentation College Bray/Leinster)

Ireland U19s
Tom Barry (Lansdowne FC/Leinster)
Jack Boal (Belfast Harlequins RFC/Ulster)
Patrick Browne (Ballymena RFC/Ulster)
Henry Buttimer (Rockwell College/Munster)
Hugh Cooney (Blackrock College/Leinster)
Diarmuid Dennehy (Bruff RFC/Munster)
John Devine (Ballinasloe RFC/Connacht)
Cameron Doak (Wallace HS/Ulster)
Dave Dooley (MU Barnhall RFC/Leinster)
Max Dunne (DUFC/Leinster)
Fintan Gunne (St Micheals College/Leinster)
George Hadden (Clontarf FC/Leinster)
Conall Henchy (Crescent College/Munster)
Daniel Leane (St Mary’s College RFC/Leinster)
Gus McCarthy (Blackrock College/Leinster)
Danny McCarthy (Midleton RFC/Munster)
Finn McNulty (Frome RFC/IQ Rugby)
Liam Molony (Blackrock College/Leinster)
George Morris (Gonzaga College/Leinster)
Josh O’Hare (Lansdowne FC/Leinster)
Ihechi Oji (CC Roscrea/Munster)
Jack Oliver (Garryowen FC/Munster)
Jim Peters (Clontarf FC/Leinster)
Sam Prendergast (Lansdowne FC/Leinster)
Ruadhan Quinn (Crescent College/Munster)
George Shaw (Cardiff University/IQ Rugby)
Noah Sheridan (Wicklow RFC/Leinter)
Rory Telfer (Colraine GS/Ulster)
Harry West (Kings Hospital/Ballina RFC/Connacht)

[mildlyinterested]

LH Prop
George Hadden (Gorey RFC/Clontarf FC/Leinster)
Tom Stewart (St Michael’s College/U18)
Oisin Lynch (Boyne RFC/U18)

TH Prop
George Morris (Gonzaga College/U19)
Andrew Sparrow (St Mary’s College/U18)
Adam Deay (Tullow RFC/U18)
Ben Howard (St Michael’s College/U18)

Hooker
Gus McCarthy (Blackrock College/U19)
Tom Barry (Gonzaga/Lansdowne FC/U19)
Flyn Pyper (Presentation College Bray/U18)
Niall O’Hanlon (Athy RFC/U18)

Lock
Jim Peters (Portlaoise/Clontarf FC/U19)
Daniel Leane (St Mary’s College RFC/U19)
Max Dunne (St. Michaels/DUFC/U19)
Mikey O’Reilly (St Michael’s College/U18)
Michael Colreavy (Blackrock College/U18)
James O’Loughlin (Naas RFC/U18)

Backrow
Josh O’Hare (Dundalk/Lansdowne FC/U19)
Liam Molony (Blackrock College/U19)
Richard Whelan (CC Roscrea/U18)
Stephen Smyth (Kilkenny College/U18)
Grant Palmer (Wexford Wanderers RFC/U18)

Scrumhalf
Fintan Gunne (St Micheals College/U19)
Oliver Coffey (Blackrock College/U18)
Tadhg Brophy (Newbridge College/U18)

Outhalf
Sam Prendergast (Newbridge/Lansdowne FC/U19)
Jack Murphy (Presentation College Bray/U18)
Sean Naughton (Kilkenny College/U18)
Tom Larke (Old Wesley RFC/U18)

Outside Backs
Noah Sheridan (Wicklow RFC/U19)
Dave Dooley (Tullamore/MU Barnhall RFC/U19)
Hugh Cooney (Blackrock College/U19)
Sam Berman (St Michael’s College/U18)
David Colbert (Gonzaga College/U18)
Luke Kritzinger (Blackrock College/U18)
Hugo McLaughlin (Gonzaga College/U18)
Stephen McMahon (Gonzaga College/U18)
Jody Brown (Gonzaga College/U18)
Finn Treacy (Presentation College Bray/U18)
Greg Fitzgerald (CC Roscrea/U18)
James Conroy (CC Roscrea/U18)

[hugonaut]

Do players like Penny and Dunne stay with Leinster beyond this season? I don't know.

If you take this year as a template, we can't carry as big a squad as we currently have. It's not that the income:player costs ratio is the issue [despite fewer games, season ticket prices haven't changed and the TV deal is much bigger than it was], but players will leave so that they can actually play rugby.

It's zero crack for Pete Dooley [as an example] to be in an Ireland squad in July, not get capped, and then only play 59 minutes of rugby in the next five months whilst being fully fit. He would have started every single game he wanted to for Connacht this season.

[Blue Man]

There will be some sort of Celtic ‘A’ League next year. It won’t be a perfect solution in that the likes of Penny are operating at a level above that, but will help develop talent; the likes of Clarkson being a good fit.
There will be frustration from AIL clubs but it’s probably the view of the Leinster coaches that the standard in an A League will be a step up and is necessary to keep stocking the conveyor belt.
I will certainly attend such games during the November and 6 Nations windows. On the subject, I’d like to see an inter pro A League this year during the 6 Nations.

[Dexter]

I don't see how the current URC format has any benefits for anyone, or how anyone thought it was a good idea. The English or French teams don't take a complete break for a month a couple of times during the season, even if another tournament fills the gap. I heard the arguments for the break.. teams playing all their internationals etc etc but it doesn't work out like that.
We really need a complementary competition to fill the gap, as soon as possible, or the league to have more games. The pricing of a season ticket hardly makes sense as it is currently too. It's not an issue this season but people may just cop on as we get back to 'normal'.

[ronk]

We have by far the deepest squad in the URC. It was always going to affect us the most. We were also the team that knew how to rotate properly. We don't know to what extent it's permanent or will change but with everything still going on some slack in the schedule is a good thing.

The Welsh and Italians in particular seem happy but I think you can see the same with Connacht. Thinner squads go further. At this stage the IRFU would probably be okay with 20 fewer pros on the island and the other provinces have more to gain/less to lose.

If matches are bigger events with stronger teams it may grow the league.

I don't know what the right answer is but I'd like to see a competition similar to the Anglo-Welsh cup. Technically senior team but a separate competition and clear to fans that it's a lower level. That still gives a product that die hard fans will go for without diluting the URC and gets over issues like the way Leinster don't televise A games. It's a higher level which motivates young players more and makes it easier to rotate big players into if they need the gametime. Steps on the AIL less.

An A competition is hard with Covid restrictions etc.

What I'm unsure of would be who to play and how to keep interpros from growing to the point where they impinge on the URC too much.

Might be that a Cara Cup style invite tournament might be the way to go. Maybe some years the Barbarians or an international minnow. Some ad hoc nature gives scope to expand/contract based on RWC/Lions years etc and play exhibitions to grow the global market. Let's teams off the hook so they can carry smaller squads if they want and taps into the nostalgia for old fashioned tours.

[mildlyinterested]

Notable players missing:

LH Prop
Adam Duffy (Dundalk/Lansdowne FC/U19)

TH Prop
Paddy McCarthy (Blackrock College/U19) - injured

Hooker
Zach Baird (St. Michael’s College/U19) - injured

Lock
Diarmuid Mangan (Newbridge/UCD/U19) - irish 20's?

Backrow
Dan Carroll (St. Michael’s College/U19)
Inigo Cruise O’Brien (Blackrock College/U18) - injured

Outside Backs
Jed Tormey (Belvedere College/U19)
Andrew Osborne (Naas RFC/U19) - injured
Wilhelm de Klerk (St. Michael’s College/U18) - injured
Rueben Moloney (Blackrock College/U18) - injured
Jules Fenelon (St. Michaels College/U18) - injured
Charlie Sheridan (Naas RFC/U18) - injured

[mildlyinterested]

Following UCD players have been selected for Irish u20 game against Italy next week:

Rory McGuire(TH Prop/Blackrock)
Mark Morrissey(Lock/Blackrock)
Conor O'Tighearnaigh(Lock/St. Michaels)
James Culhane(Backrow/Blackrock)
Michael Moloney(Scrumhalf/Blackrock)
Ben Brownlee(Centre/Blackrock)
Fionn Gibbons(Centre-Wing/Castleknock)
Dylan O'Grady(Wing/Fullback/Belvedere)

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I don't see how the current URC format has any benefits for anyone, or how anyone thought it was a good idea. The English or French teams don't take a complete break for a month a couple of times during the season, even if another tournament fills the gap. I heard the arguments for the break.. teams playing all their internationals etc etc but it doesn't work out like that.
We really need a complementary competition to fill the gap, as soon as possible, or the league to have more games. The pricing of a season ticket hardly makes sense as it is currently too. It's not an issue this season but people may just cop on as we get back to 'normal'.

There are obviously financial benefits that can’t be ignored
but Im the exact same. I couldn’t give a toss about the South African teams and it’s created a mess. There’s no luck involved with the teams that went to SA and are now screwed because of Covid, it was a stupid decision to have expanded the comp during a pandemic and they didn’t seem to build in any contingencies. At the very least they could have made sure nobody was down there the week before European games.

[ronk]

I don't see how the current URC format has any benefits for anyone, or how anyone thought it was a good idea. The English or French teams don't take a complete break for a month a couple of times during the season, even if another tournament fills the gap. I heard the arguments for the break.. teams playing all their internationals etc etc but it doesn't work out like that.
We really need a complementary competition to fill the gap, as soon as possible, or the league to have more games. The pricing of a season ticket hardly makes sense as it is currently too. It's not an issue this season but people may just cop on as we get back to 'normal'.

There are obviously financial benefits that can’t be ignored
but Im the exact same. I couldn’t give a toss about the South African teams and it’s created a mess. There’s no luck involved with the teams that went to SA and are now screwed because of Covid, it was a stupid decision to have expanded the comp during a pandemic and they didn’t seem to build in any contingencies. At the very least they could have made sure nobody was down there the week before European games.

They didn't have a choice about timing the expansions to SA. The first time 2 teams were cut from Super Rugby but still had funding. It was then or never. And last year they were all cut out of Super rugby and it was the same thing.

We had to merge or go our own ways. And accept the price either way.

The home games were going to be played in Italy but it looked right for SA and it was their first chance to get games at home. I thought it was a fair call. The variant timing was unbelievably poor fortune and came out of nowhere.

[mildlyinterested]

I don't see how the current URC format has any benefits for anyone, or how anyone thought it was a good idea. The English or French teams don't take a complete break for a month a couple of times during the season, even if another tournament fills the gap. I heard the arguments for the break.. teams playing all their internationals etc etc but it doesn't work out like that.
We really need a complementary competition to fill the gap, as soon as possible, or the league to have more games. The pricing of a season ticket hardly makes sense as it is currently too. It's not an issue this season but people may just cop on as we get back to 'normal'.

not playing during November was a mistake, even just one game.. the delayed start to the league also a bad idea.

two games during the 6 nations will also be a bad idea.

it's been a mess generally really.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I don't see how the current URC format has any benefits for anyone, or how anyone thought it was a good idea. The English or French teams don't take a complete break for a month a couple of times during the season, even if another tournament fills the gap. I heard the arguments for the break.. teams playing all their internationals etc etc but it doesn't work out like that.
We really need a complementary competition to fill the gap, as soon as possible, or the league to have more games. The pricing of a season ticket hardly makes sense as it is currently too. It's not an issue this season but people may just cop on as we get back to 'normal'.

There are obviously financial benefits that can’t be ignored
but Im the exact same. I couldn’t give a toss about the South African teams and it’s created a mess. There’s no luck involved with the teams that went to SA and are now screwed because of Covid, it was a stupid decision to have expanded the comp during a pandemic and they didn’t seem to build in any contingencies. At the very least they could have made sure nobody was down there the week before European games.

They didn't have a choice about timing the expansions to SA. The first time 2 teams were cut from Super Rugby but still had funding. It was then or never. And last year they were all cut out of Super rugby and it was the same thing.

We had to merge or go our own ways. And accept the price either way.

The home games were going to be played in Italy but it looked right for SA and it was their first chance to get games at home. I thought it was a fair call. The variant timing was unbelievably poor fortune and came out of nowhere.

There’s always a choice and they should have at least learned lessons from the Rainbow Cup.

The idea that this wasn’t predictable is really bizarre to me. I’m all for trying to keep things going on a smaller scale but this was too big and too soon for everything that’s going on.

[fourthirtythree]

The European and American response to Omicron has been a real shock and is seen as bizarre in much of the world.

Given that the response to Delta was to do nothing they have swung the absolute opposite way here and bludgeoned everything taking a lot of collateral damage.

That wasn't entirely predictable.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

The European and American response to Omicron has been a real shock and is seen as bizarre in much of the world.

Given that the response to Delta was to do nothing they have swung the absolute opposite way here and bludgeoned everything taking a lot of collateral damage.

That wasn't entirely predictable.

But nothing is predictable right now which is exactly what makes any issue predictable and the world a very difficult environment to make a competition like this workable.

Think of the little things in your life that you would have been skeptical about planning before Omnicron. For me that includes Christmas dinner, holidays, weddings etc. You can’t be conscious of those potential issues and then think a global rugby competition would be okay.

[fourthirtythree]

I would predict quarantine. A sudden shutdown of flights and chaos I wouldn't predict.

We are a year and a half in, there was a window (internationals being played). It wouldn't be ideal but...

[riocard911]

I don't see how the current URC format has any benefits for anyone, or how anyone thought it was a good idea. The English or French teams don't take a complete break for a month a couple of times during the season, even if another tournament fills the gap. I heard the arguments for the break.. teams playing all their internationals etc etc but it doesn't work out like that.
We really need a complementary competition to fill the gap, as soon as possible, or the league to have more games. The pricing of a season ticket hardly makes sense as it is currently too. It's not an issue this season but people may just cop on as we get back to 'normal'.

There are obviously financial benefits that can’t be ignored
but Im the exact same. I couldn’t give a toss about the South African teams and it’s created a mess. There’s no luck involved with the teams that went to SA and are now screwed because of Covid, it was a stupid decision to have expanded the comp during a pandemic and they didn’t seem to build in any contingencies. At the very least they could have made sure nobody was down there the week before European games.

They didn't have a choice about timing the expansions to SA. The first time 2 teams were cut from Super Rugby but still had funding. It was then or never. And last year they were all cut out of Super rugby and it was the same thing.

We had to merge or go our own ways. And accept the price either way.

The home games were going to be played in Italy but it looked right for SA and it was their first chance to get games at home. I thought it was a fair call. The variant timing was unbelievably poor fortune and came out of nowhere.

+1

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I would predict quarantine. A sudden shutdown of flights and chaos I wouldn't predict.

We are a year and a half in, there was a window (internationals being played). It wouldn't be ideal but...

Exactly, we are over a year and a half in, this isn’t going away any time soon and situations have changed constantly all over the world for those 22 or so months so no reason to think they won’t keep changing.

But again, even if they thought it had to be done, they should have built in a contingency or allowed for more time. They didn’t for the Rainbow Cup and then didn’t for this either. It’s like they just accepted the money without any thought of whether it could work or not.