Heineken Cup 2021/22

[Made Of Ale]

Pretty happy overall with the way the draw looks, given we came fourth.

If we get past Connacht:
We'll be away to Leicester in the QFs if they win, but we could still be home to Clermont.

If we make it to the semis:
The only away matches would be against Ulster or Munster (maybe in the Aviva?).
Matches against Toulouse or Exeter would be at home.
Can't be away in France or England.

Plenty of rugby to be played between now and then.

[LeinsterLeader]

I think our biggest obstacle in the competition now is the 6 Nations. If we come out the other side of that in good nick on the injury front we should be a match for anyone.

[desperado]

Pretty happy overall with the way the draw looks, given we came fourth.

If we get past Connacht:
We'll be away to Leicester in the QFs if they win, but we could still be home to Clermont.

If we make it to the semis:
The only away matches would be against Ulster or Munster (maybe in the Aviva?).
Matches against Toulouse or Exeter would be at home.
Can't be away in France or England.

Plenty of rugby to be played between now and then.

it that the case? Rules below. The highest ranked club between Leinster and Clermont would indeed be Leinster; but the order is called out as winner of R16 8 (Leicester or Clermont) as having home advantage. Confusing/contradictory.

2.7 The quarter-finals will be played over one match and the highest-ranked club from the pool stage will have home venue advantage as follows:
QF 1: Winner R16 1 v Winner R16 5
QF 2: Winner R16 7 v Winner R16 3
QF 3: Winner R16 2 v Winner R16 6
QF 4: Winner R16 8 v Winner R16 4

[Serb]

They changed the rules around the draw last season. The highest ranked club always gets the home advantage from the quarter finals on.

[desperado]

They changed the rules around the draw last season. The highest ranked club always gets the home advantage from the quarter finals on.

thanks Serb

[paddyor]

The panel on by sport talking up the format waffling about what a great final round and how much movement there was in the last 16……dear god. 3 of the games were settled by protocol 28-0. There were 3 50 burgers(should’ve been 4) so basically half the games were dead runners. I mean it’s only getting started now.

[blockhead]

So no Welsh or Scottish teams in the last 16. 1 win between the 4 of them.

[blockhead]

Why not?

There are already bordering 15k season ticket holders across both clubs so you're starting with that base.

Sell ticket packages, make them reasonably priced and attract people looking to attend an event who can't get 6N tickets.

We've had plenty of times when Leinster alone have had 50k plus crowds multiple times in HEC knockouts, often with 2-3 week ticket selling periods, not 2 months with the country coming out of a pandemic.

I think we'll certainly moved the second leg to the Aviva, which we should to maximise income.

I don't think this will happen because of the politics & imagination required, but it should be discussed by the provinces and IRFU at least.

Getting those 50K crowds takes a huge amount of work and time especially since the novelty of the Aviva wore off. Even for the glamour teams and Connacht aren't a glamour team. We sold out the game against Ulster a few years ago, but that was one quarter final game, in an untainted competition, without any post-lockdown recitence, against a side with a far larger support, that have a considerably easier journey.

You could fill the ground by giving away half the tickets for half nothing, but you'd make more from playing in the RDS/Sportsground if you did that

And again, let me emphasise, its very very hard to sell tickets once you hit 35 - 40k. I think we'll play our leg in the Aviva and it would be the right call, but I don't think that Connacht will want to. They'll have to be leaned on very, VERY, hard and the Union has very little goodwill to play with

Is there a minimum crowd limit as in the days of yore. IE 18,000?
There is a long lead time so a lot of tickets could be sold, but 2 games in the Aviva? Unlikely.
What would be the max allowed in the Sportsground?
With the 4 provinces on the same side of the draw, and 3 home 6N games, Irish rugby could make a lorry load of cash if things go the right way.

[D4surfer]

Why not?

There are already bordering 15k season ticket holders across both clubs so you're starting with that base.

Sell ticket packages, make them reasonably priced and attract people looking to attend an event who can't get 6N tickets.

We've had plenty of times when Leinster alone have had 50k plus crowds multiple times in HEC knockouts, often with 2-3 week ticket selling periods, not 2 months with the country coming out of a pandemic.

I think we'll certainly moved the second leg to the Aviva, which we should to maximise income.

I don't think this will happen because of the politics & imagination required, but it should be discussed by the provinces and IRFU at least.

Getting those 50K crowds takes a huge amount of work and time especially since the novelty of the Aviva wore off. Even for the glamour teams and Connacht aren't a glamour team. We sold out the game against Ulster a few years ago, but that was one quarter final game, in an untainted competition, without any post-lockdown recitence, against a side with a far larger support, that have a considerably easier journey.

You could fill the ground by giving away half the tickets for half nothing, but you'd make more from playing in the RDS/Sportsground if you did that

And again, let me emphasise, its very very hard to sell tickets once you hit 35 - 40k. I think we'll play our leg in the Aviva and it would be the right call, but I don't think that Connacht will want to. They'll have to be leaned on very, VERY, hard and the Union has very little goodwill to play with

Is there a minimum crowd limit as in the days of yore. IE 18,000?
There is a long lead time so a lot of tickets could be sold, but 2 games in the Aviva? Unlikely.
What would be the max allowed in the Sportsground?
With the 4 provinces on the same side of the draw, and 3 home 6N games, Irish rugby could make a lorry load of cash if things go the right way.

The minimum limit was for QFs so I'm not sure this would apply to home and away rounds of 16.

[blockhead]

Getting those 50K crowds takes a huge amount of work and time especially since the novelty of the Aviva wore off. Even for the glamour teams and Connacht aren't a glamour team. We sold out the game against Ulster a few years ago, but that was one quarter final game, in an untainted competition, without any post-lockdown recitence, against a side with a far larger support, that have a considerably easier journey.

You could fill the ground by giving away half the tickets for half nothing, but you'd make more from playing in the RDS/Sportsground if you did that

And again, let me emphasise, its very very hard to sell tickets once you hit 35 - 40k. I think we'll play our leg in the Aviva and it would be the right call, but I don't think that Connacht will want to. They'll have to be leaned on very, VERY, hard and the Union has very little goodwill to play with

Is there a minimum crowd limit as in the days of yore. IE 18,000?
There is a long lead time so a lot of tickets could be sold, but 2 games in the Aviva? Unlikely.
What would be the max allowed in the Sportsground?
With the 4 provinces on the same side of the draw, and 3 home 6N games, Irish rugby could make a lorry load of cash if things go the right way.

The minimum limit was for QFs so I'm not sure this would apply to home and away rounds of 16.

Just doing the maths in my head, if it went the right way, 250,000 tickets could be sold at Irish venue's. between, last 16, QFs and SF.

[Oldschool]

Is there a minimum crowd limit as in the days of yore. IE 18,000?
There is a long lead time so a lot of tickets could be sold, but 2 games in the Aviva? Unlikely.
What would be the max allowed in the Sportsground?
With the 4 provinces on the same side of the draw, and 3 home 6N games, Irish rugby could make a lorry load of cash if things go the right way.

The minimum limit was for QFs so I'm not sure this would apply to home and away rounds of 16.

Just doing the maths in my head, if it went the right way, 250,000 tickets could be sold at Irish venue's. between, last 16, QFs and SF.

That's a lot of pint swilling.

[riocard911]

The minimum limit was for QFs so I'm not sure this would apply to home and away rounds of 16.

Just doing the maths in my head, if it went the right way, 250,000 tickets could be sold at Irish venue's. between, last 16, QFs and SF.

That's a lot of pint swilling.

Sure is. Sláinte bheath!!!

[hugonaut]

Getting those 50K crowds takes a huge amount of work and time especially since the novelty of the Aviva wore off. Even for the glamour teams and Connacht aren't a glamour team. We sold out the game against Ulster a few years ago, but that was one quarter final game, in an untainted competition, without any post-lockdown recitence, against a side with a far larger support, that have a considerably easier journey.

You could fill the ground by giving away half the tickets for half nothing, but you'd make more from playing in the RDS/Sportsground if you did that

And again, let me emphasise, its very very hard to sell tickets once you hit 35 - 40k. I think we'll play our leg in the Aviva and it would be the right call, but I don't think that Connacht will want to. They'll have to be leaned on very, VERY, hard and the Union has very little goodwill to play with

We got 43k for a home semi-final against Toulouse in April 2019. They are a massive team, it was a huge match and we were riding very high at the time. I think that backs up your point Dave – it's pretty difficult to get over that 40k number. It's a lot of people!

[wixfjord]

Getting those 50K crowds takes a huge amount of work and time especially since the novelty of the Aviva wore off. Even for the glamour teams and Connacht aren't a glamour team. We sold out the game against Ulster a few years ago, but that was one quarter final game, in an untainted competition, without any post-lockdown recitence, against a side with a far larger support, that have a considerably easier journey.

You could fill the ground by giving away half the tickets for half nothing, but you'd make more from playing in the RDS/Sportsground if you did that

And again, let me emphasise, its very very hard to sell tickets once you hit 35 - 40k. I think we'll play our leg in the Aviva and it would be the right call, but I don't think that Connacht will want to. They'll have to be leaned on very, VERY, hard and the Union has very little goodwill to play with

We got 43k for a home semi-final against Toulouse in April 2019. They are a massive team, it was a huge match and we were riding very high at the time. I think that backs up your point Dave – it's pretty difficult to get over that 40k number. It's a lot of people!

Semi final is much harder to sell though, because you don't have two months to sell them.

The better reference point is the Ulster QF game a few weeks before that which was a full house.

We should be able to get 50k for our half of this tie, and I have a difference perspective than Dave on the challenge/opportunity of getting two sizeable crowds into the Aviva two weeks in a row for this huge occasion.

[blockhead]

Our lowest QF attendance was just under 44K ( in 2015 v Bath (i think)) all others have been 50K plus. A long lead time bodes well when trying to shift tickets.
That game v Toulouse was such a lovely day, everyone hit the beach.

[Flash Gordon]

Getting those 50K crowds takes a huge amount of work and time especially since the novelty of the Aviva wore off. Even for the glamour teams and Connacht aren't a glamour team. We sold out the game against Ulster a few years ago, but that was one quarter final game, in an untainted competition, without any post-lockdown recitence, against a side with a far larger support, that have a considerably easier journey.

You could fill the ground by giving away half the tickets for half nothing, but you'd make more from playing in the RDS/Sportsground if you did that

And again, let me emphasise, its very very hard to sell tickets once you hit 35 - 40k. I think we'll play our leg in the Aviva and it would be the right call, but I don't think that Connacht will want to. They'll have to be leaned on very, VERY, hard and the Union has very little goodwill to play with

We got 43k for a home semi-final against Toulouse in April 2019. They are a massive team, it was a huge match and we were riding very high at the time. I think that backs up your point Dave – it's pretty difficult to get over that 40k number. It's a lot of people!

There were virtually no Toulouse fans there that day. There was a small block of red on the half way that was pretty much it.

We will play in the Aviva I'm sure. As Dave said, it's hard to get a massive crowd in, you have to work for it and there are fixed costs to pay to the IRFU/catering to use the stadium.

If connacht put temporary stands in at both ends of the ground they could add a couple of thousand seats. Other option would be Pearse Stadium which holds 26k, which is just about right but they would obviously have to pay the GAA. On balance I think they'll probably keep it in the Sportsground. Wonder what the revenue split rules are on home and away games?

[blockhead]

Why can't we have a sports minister like this one?
Who is our Minister for Sport?

France's Minister of Sport, Roxana Maracineanu, has contacted the president of EPCR to express her "misunderstanding" of the decision they claim "discredits the health protocol" of French rugby.

In a letter seen by AFP, she wrote: "I am awaiting an explanation of the reasons which led you to sanction Stade Toulousain when it had a full team to play the match against Cardiff and scrupulously respected the authentic LNR protocol to participate. at the European Cup, as indicated in your regulations."

In the letter, Maracineanu notes that France has put in place “a demanding and effective strategy to fight against the epidemic” and that their ministry “has validated the protocol presented by the Ligue Nationale de Rugby”, which they believe to be “extremely robust".

She also added that "Stade Toulouse had made the responsible choice to test very widely within the club, including the administrative staff, in order to immediately put anyone infected in isolation, avoid any start of a cluster and always maintain a sufficient workforce to calmly compete in the European Championship and Cup".

She then called the cancellation an "incomprehensible" decision that "penalises an exemplary club in its management of the crisis".

And she finished by claiming that the sanction discredits the health protocols of French sport.

“This responsible and transparent approach is today sanctioned by your decision," she wrote. "Beyond the moral and sporting consequences for the club and its players, your incomprehensible decision discredits the health protocol of our championship and all of French sport. It is totally incomprehensible”.

[joooooe]

Leinster scored 30 tries across the 3 games played in the group stages of this year's Heineken Cup.

The record for the pool stages of the Heineken Cup is 36 by Stade Francais in 2000/01 (when of course they played 6 matches).

Leinster this season only the 7th time that a team has scored 30 tries in the group stages of the Heineken Cup. Previous times this has happened were as follows:

• 1997/98: Wasps: 31 tries;

• 1998/99: Perpignan: 35 tries;

• 2000/01: Stade Francais: 36 tries;

• 2002/03: Leicester: 31 tries;

• 2004/05: Leinster: 33 tries; and

• 2016/17: Leinster: 31 tries.

So:

• of the seven times that this has been done, Leinster have done it on three of those occasions and no other team has done it for 19 years;

• under the new format of 12 team groups and 4 games per team, Leinster this season became the first and so far only team to score 20 tries in a group stage, let alone the 30 they ultimately achieved;

• Leinster of course scored these 30 tries in just 3 games, so on a pro rata basis they are way out in front of any group stage performance of any team in the history of the competition; and

• Leinster this season became the first team to score 30 tries and not top their pool, largely due to that extraordinary match in Montpellier where the home team shut out Leinster in a match where Montpellier secured the bonus point as part of a 28-0 romp.

[fourthirtythree]

Why can't we have a sports minister like this one?
Who is our Minister for Sport?

France's Minister of Sport, Roxana Maracineanu, has contacted the president of EPCR to express her "misunderstanding" of the decision they claim "discredits the health protocol" of French rugby.

In a letter seen by AFP, she wrote: "I am awaiting an explanation of the reasons which led you to sanction Stade Toulousain when it had a full team to play the match against Cardiff and scrupulously respected the authentic LNR protocol to participate. at the European Cup, as indicated in your regulations."

In the letter, Maracineanu notes that France has put in place “a demanding and effective strategy to fight against the epidemic” and that their ministry “has validated the protocol presented by the Ligue Nationale de Rugby”, which they believe to be “extremely robust".

She also added that "Stade Toulouse had made the responsible choice to test very widely within the club, including the administrative staff, in order to immediately put anyone infected in isolation, avoid any start of a cluster and always maintain a sufficient workforce to calmly compete in the European Championship and Cup".

She then called the cancellation an "incomprehensible" decision that "penalises an exemplary club in its management of the crisis".

And she finished by claiming that the sanction discredits the health protocols of French sport.

“This responsible and transparent approach is today sanctioned by your decision," she wrote. "Beyond the moral and sporting consequences for the club and its players, your incomprehensible decision discredits the health protocol of our championship and all of French sport. It is totally incomprehensible”.

Absolutely some mickey mouse organisation formed to maximise commercial return that shot itself in the foot repeatedly and instead minimised it, set up in Switzerland for... reasons publicly shat on the Irish government's health protocol adherence, health assessments, and veracity and they really need to be taken out to the woodshed for that.

It's not as if they are remotely credible.

[mildlyinterested]

any idea when we will know what days the games are on?