The Leinster Front Row preview 2021/22
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Re: The Leinster Front Row preview 2021/22
You’d hope Buckley stepping up to a senior deal, along with Barron, O’Byrne and scannell in place, that their hooker roster is nicely complete.
Big things expected of Buckley, why stall his development? A local lad will always pip an outsider in the long run too.
Assuming Munster is the only destination Nucifora is interested
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Big things expected of Buckley, why stall his development? A local lad will always pip an outsider in the long run too.
Assuming Munster is the only destination Nucifora is interested
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
- Flash Gordon
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Re: The Leinster Front Row preview 2021/22
He's winning caps and has a chance of silverware at Leinster. We need 2 front rows and there will be no issue with game time at all and it will be good for Kelleher's development to feel the heat. From a development point of view Leinster is a the better environment to be in.the spoofer wrote: ↑January 12th, 2022, 4:38 pm Yeah, I'd say the pressure will tell. First choice, more money and caps v's possibility of winning something shiny at the end of a season.
Flash ahhhh ahhh, he'll save every one of us
Re: The Leinster Front Row preview 2021/22
He can't get more money.the spoofer wrote: ↑January 12th, 2022, 4:38 pm Yeah, I'd say the pressure will tell. First choice, more money and caps v's possibility of winning something shiny at the end of a season.
He's already on a senior deal, so there's no upper echelon of contract he can be offered. The provinces aren't allowed to compete with each other on price for a player on the same contract level, as the IRFU are the overall paymasters – it makes no sense to have a bidding war between two entities that they are financially responsible for. Another province can match what he is being offered and then offer an incentive like a guaranteed number of starts or guaranteed European starts or guaranteed minutes.
If a player is on an academy contract [basic €8k], then another province can offer him a development contract [basic €25k]. If a player is on a development deal, then another province can offer him a senior contract [€40k starting – might be more now]. If a player is on a senior contract [say €80k], then another province can only offer him €80k. They can't offer €100k.
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Re: The Leinster Front Row preview 2021/22
I was led to believe that the financial rewards for being a starter are considerably greater. Not sure does this relate to match fees etc.hugonaut wrote: ↑January 12th, 2022, 5:48 pmHe can't get more money.the spoofer wrote: ↑January 12th, 2022, 4:38 pm Yeah, I'd say the pressure will tell. First choice, more money and caps v's possibility of winning something shiny at the end of a season.
He's already on a senior deal, so there's no upper echelon of contract he can be offered. The provinces aren't allowed to compete with each other on price for a player on the same contract level, as the IRFU are the overall paymasters – it makes no sense to have a bidding war between two entities that they are financially responsible for. Another province can match what he is being offered and then offer an incentive like a guaranteed number of starts or guaranteed European starts or guaranteed minutes.
If a player is on an academy contract [basic €8k], then another province can offer him a development contract [basic €25k]. If a player is on a development deal, then another province can offer him a senior contract [€40k starting – might be more now]. If a player is on a senior contract [say €80k], then another province can only offer him €80k. They can't offer €100k.
Re: The Leinster Front Row preview 2021/22
The IRFU can stop Munster from offering more money, if they want. And they can stop us matching Munster's offer, if they want.
And if they want they can pre-approve a huge contract extension that gets announced in November.
If the IRFU decide they want it then we're on our own and Sheehan's only option is to flat out refuse and look overseas for leverage. They can't afford him to call if they bluff.
Re: The Leinster Front Row preview 2021/22
Your last sentence is worthy of a bit of analysis.Flash Gordon wrote: ↑January 12th, 2022, 5:26 pmHe's winning caps and has a chance of silverware at Leinster. We need 2 front rows and there will be no issue with game time at all and it will be good for Kelleher's development to feel the heat. From a development point of view Leinster is a the better environment to be in.the spoofer wrote: ↑January 12th, 2022, 4:38 pm Yeah, I'd say the pressure will tell. First choice, more money and caps v's possibility of winning something shiny at the end of a season.
Firstly it's spot on.
However at what point does the IRFU/Nucifora/Other provinces and perhaps even Leinster figure out.
A. That a player is no longer a development project but the finished product (more or less)
B. Subsequent to A That one province supplying the first choice and back up to the national team is not necessarily good for the national team or the province.
So we could see a change whereby younger but established players become the targets (for a move) rather than even younger players of potential.
Mirror, Mirror on the Wall who's the greatest player of them all? It is Drico your majesty.
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- Rob Kearney
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Re: The Leinster Front Row preview 2021/22
There was a formal written protocol in place governing movement between Provinces which was furiously debated by Professional Game Board and approved by IRFU Committee. However, that pre-dates Lucifora and he may have amended or scrapped the protocol. Given some of the player movements and signings and apparent 'favouritism' of Munster over the past three years, it certainly wouldn't surprise me if Lucifora rode roughshod over a formal IRFU agreement between Provinces.Oldschool wrote: ↑January 12th, 2022, 8:26 pmYour last sentence is worthy of a bit of analysis.Flash Gordon wrote: ↑January 12th, 2022, 5:26 pmHe's winning caps and has a chance of silverware at Leinster. We need 2 front rows and there will be no issue with game time at all and it will be good for Kelleher's development to feel the heat. From a development point of view Leinster is a the better environment to be in.the spoofer wrote: ↑January 12th, 2022, 4:38 pm Yeah, I'd say the pressure will tell. First choice, more money and caps v's possibility of winning something shiny at the end of a season.
Firstly it's spot on.
However at what point does the IRFU/Nucifora/Other provinces and perhaps even Leinster figure out.
A. That a player is no longer a development project but the finished product (more or less)
B. Subsequent to A That one province supplying the first choice and back up to the national team is not necessarily good for the national team or the province.
So we could see a change whereby younger but established players become the targets (for a move) rather than even younger players of potential.
However, if Sheehan was encouraged by the same man to move South, Leinster Board and probably their Head Coach and CEO would go ballistic and probably public and the row would certainly escalate to the 'blazers' I.e. the IRFU Committee. Many fans consider they are no longer important, but, in effect, they are the Non-Executive Directors (NEDs) of the IRFU. If they get involved, this will become a real dog-fight and Leinster will not roll over to have it's tummy tickled. It nearly happened over Carbury, but Joe's "support" of that move trumped any objections. This time round, it would be different.
Re: The Leinster Front Row preview 2021/22
It's not about development. It's a hard sell to boost Munster. It's only happening because Munster wouldn't spend their own money on a big name hooker, they never have before. They won't now if they don't get him. This is opportunistic rather than priority. The risk to Sheehan is exponentially higher if Munster are just gambling with someone else's money (& career).
It might not be ideal that Leinster supply both players in a position but it's not like Casey and Murray is a problem. Or renewing Snyman ahead of Ahern is intolerable.
Moving a player is a worse alternative that's batting 0.000.
Sheehan specially has issues in his game that will take a while to iron out. He needs to work on his fundamentals, he throws wild offloads. His upside means he plays anyway and no amount of training would have most hookers beating wingers with jumpcuts. When Beirne played for Scarlets he played an up tempo offloading game that's mostly just a memory. You won't throw many successful offloads if there's no one on your shoulder.
It might not be ideal that Leinster supply both players in a position but it's not like Casey and Murray is a problem. Or renewing Snyman ahead of Ahern is intolerable.
Moving a player is a worse alternative that's batting 0.000.
Sheehan specially has issues in his game that will take a while to iron out. He needs to work on his fundamentals, he throws wild offloads. His upside means he plays anyway and no amount of training would have most hookers beating wingers with jumpcuts. When Beirne played for Scarlets he played an up tempo offloading game that's mostly just a memory. You won't throw many successful offloads if there's no one on your shoulder.
Re: The Leinster Front Row preview 2021/22
Works both ways. Lots of influential Munster fans around and they've done next to nothing to rein in most of the excesses. Munster were confident enough to leak that the IRFU blocked Pieter-Steph du Tout.Ruckedtobits wrote: ↑January 12th, 2022, 9:39 pm Many fans consider they are no longer important, but, in effect, they are the Non-Executive Directors (NEDs) of the IRFU. If they get involved, this will become a real dog-fight and Leinster will not roll over to have it's tummy tickled.
Open warfare by Leo would just get him sacked.
Munster are more at risk than Leinster are and there'd be a lot of buzz around such an exciting player. But it's a sunk cost fallacy, the risk isn't decline in Leinster, it's a missed opportunity to grow.
Some of the assistance that Munster are getting would get Leinster enough to be dominant in Europe again. Return Beirne to Leinster instead of Munster, keep Carbery. Allow Casey to leave rather than allow the counter offer, a NIQ utility back. No last minute tighthead poaching during an injury crisis. Not exactly talking about top dollar world cup winners at the peak of their careers. Payback on a small incremental investment would be fast.
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- Knowledgeable
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Re: The Leinster Front Row preview 2021/22
The IRFU tried to pressure Andrew Porter to move earlier in his career and Porter refused. Hopefully Sheehan does the same.mildlyinterested wrote: ↑January 12th, 2022, 5:11 pmYeah the IRFU pressure is the issue.the spoofer wrote: ↑January 12th, 2022, 4:38 pm Yeah, I'd say the pressure will tell. First choice, more money and caps v's possibility of winning something shiny at the end of a season.
I have nothing good to say about David Nucifora in a professional capacity. The man thought Johann van Graan was worthy of a two year extension. Says it all really.
- LeRouxIsPHat
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Re: The Leinster Front Row preview 2021/22
Is this speculation actually based on anything? I didn’t hear what Murray K said but I haven’t seen any direct quote and it doesn’t seem to have gained any traction anywhere. Unless I’m missing something I can’t see anything at all when I search Twitter. There’s nowhere else I really look for rugby stuff but haven’t heard a thing and none of my real world mates mentioned it.
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Re: The Leinster Front Row preview 2021/22
I agree. Murray K mentioned it in a vague “wouldn’t Munster love to get their hands on Sheehan” type of way. Well of course they would!LeRouxIsPHat wrote: ↑January 13th, 2022, 12:34 am Is this speculation actually based on anything? I didn’t hear what Murray K said but I haven’t seen any direct quote and it doesn’t seem to have gained any traction anywhere. Unless I’m missing something I can’t see anything at all when I search Twitter. There’s nowhere else I really look for rugby stuff but haven’t heard a thing and none of my real world mates mentioned it.
For all we know Dan Sheehan may have absolutely no intention of going anywhere and will back himself to overtake Kelleher for club and country. I sincerely hope he does.
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Re: The Leinster Front Row preview 2021/22
I think this rumour was kicked off by m#1 tbh
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Re: The Leinster Front Row preview 2021/22
Here’s the offending article
https://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/dan-shee ... ter-245862
Apparently Greg O’Shea floated the idea on a podcast with Darren Cave with "Do you know what I was thinking about Sheehan?" Greg O'Shea began, during a look ahead to the rugby year ahead. "Why don't Munster bring him down?" …
https://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/dan-shee ... ter-245862
Apparently Greg O’Shea floated the idea on a podcast with Darren Cave with "Do you know what I was thinking about Sheehan?" Greg O'Shea began, during a look ahead to the rugby year ahead. "Why don't Munster bring him down?" …
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Re: The Leinster Front Row preview 2021/22
Don't think he's commented once on the topic in this thread! Seems to be a few posters speculating
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Re: The Leinster Front Row preview 2021/22
https://www.leinsterfans.com/forum/view ... 83#p791883Laighin Break wrote: ↑January 13th, 2022, 6:18 amDon't think he's commented once on the topic in this thread! Seems to be a few posters speculating
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Re: The Leinster Front Row preview 2021/22
He was talking about inhaler taking over as head coach, no?Oldschoolsocks wrote: ↑January 13th, 2022, 8:09 amhttps://www.leinsterfans.com/forum/view ... 83#p791883Laighin Break wrote: ↑January 13th, 2022, 6:18 amDon't think he's commented once on the topic in this thread! Seems to be a few posters speculating
"It was Mrs O'Leary's cow"
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Re: The Leinster Front Row preview 2021/22
I thought I linked to the post where he saidPeg Leg wrote: ↑January 13th, 2022, 2:40 pmHe was talking about inhaler taking over as head coach, no?Oldschoolsocks wrote: ↑January 13th, 2022, 8:09 amhttps://www.leinsterfans.com/forum/view ... 83#p791883Laighin Break wrote: ↑January 13th, 2022, 6:18 am
Don't think he's commented once on the topic in this thread! Seems to be a few posters speculating
“Rumours doing the rounds down here that there are discussions ongoing to have Sheehan move to Munster for next season.”
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Re: The Leinster Front Row preview 2021/22
I thought you used to have a sense of humour?Oldschoolsocks wrote: ↑January 13th, 2022, 2:48 pmI thought I linked to the post where he saidPeg Leg wrote: ↑January 13th, 2022, 2:40 pmHe was talking about inhaler taking over as head coach, no?Oldschoolsocks wrote: ↑January 13th, 2022, 8:09 am
https://www.leinsterfans.com/forum/view ... 83#p791883
“Rumours doing the rounds down here that there are discussions ongoing to have Sheehan move to Munster for next season.”
"It was Mrs O'Leary's cow"
Daniel Sullivan
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Re: The Leinster Front Row preview 2021/22
I used to, I’m just slow on the uptake,Peg Leg wrote: ↑January 13th, 2022, 3:07 pmI thought you used to have a sense of humour?Oldschoolsocks wrote: ↑January 13th, 2022, 2:48 pmI thought I linked to the post where he said
“Rumours doing the rounds down here that there are discussions ongoing to have Sheehan move to Munster for next season.”