The Leinster Lock & Blindside preview 2021/22

[Ruckedtobits]

Elsom (as a tall blindside) 08-09, Hines 09-11, Thorn 11-12, Browne 11-13, McCarthy 13-17 , Triggs 15-17, Fardy

Also worth noting that the HCs were won with Elsom, Hines, Thorn and Fardy. The last 2 years we upgrade a fading Fardy with Skelton, a lot of people would have thought maybe that's the difference that wins us a fifth star.

Very hard to dispute the logic of that presumption.

[mildlyinterested]

I can't see Leinster winning anything in europe without a true top class heavy lock to match the bigger teams, outside an unexpected change in how rugby is played by the province or refed in the NH.

[ronk]

I've seen us beat those teams without one. Anywhere we can improve helps our chances.

Injuries, both missing players and carrying bad form, were more than enough last season to scuttle us.

A world class loosehead or a Rocky level 6 would have the same effect.

[mildlyinterested]

I've seen us beat those teams without one. Anywhere we can improve helps our chances.

Injuries, both missing players and carrying bad form, were more than enough last season to scuttle us.

A world class loosehead or a Rocky level 6 would have the same effect.

In the past we did when the team was stronger but the team isnt as good as it was in the past and this current team lacks top end power in the pack to compete with teams with more power.

Leinster have been found for several years in a row now when we cant win the collision game up front. Saracens gave everyone the blueprint and it hasnt changed.

[ronk]

It used to be easier to move teams around.

Another thing that changed in the game. I was looking at Damien Browne's old stats. He started big games and subbed in a few small ones.

You'd grind down teams and then up the pace. Now teams grind you down so they can grind you down more!

[mildlyinterested]

Some encouraging words from JR:

We know very well that Ryan is always happy to put his hand up for crunching carries close to the ruck but having consistently high-quality passing skills will make him an even better player.

“It’s really important,” says Ryan. “That’s something we’re big on with both Leinster and Ireland – running square, taking on the line, and it’s also guys either side of the ball-carrier running genuine strike lines, putting a show on around the ball-carrier so we can create indecision in the opposition’s mind.

“That’s something we’re working on in Leinster. We want to get away from one-out ball carriers, particularly when we come up against bigger, stronger teams like the Bulls.

“It’s about the show and animation around the ball-carriers that creates space further away on the edge or in the midfield.”

https://www.the42.ie/james-ryan-leinste ... 8-Oct2021/

[Oldschool]

I've seen us beat those teams without one. Anywhere we can improve helps our chances.

Injuries, both missing players and carrying bad form, were more than enough last season to scuttle us.

A world class loosehead or a Rocky level 6 would have the same effect.

In the past we did when the team was stronger but the team isnt as good as it was in the past and this current team lacks top end power in the pack to compete with teams with more power.

Leinster have been found for several years in a row now when we cant win the collision game up front. Saracens gave everyone the blueprint and it hasnt changed.

VM1 did an hour on Matt Williams.
He said that England had figured Ireland out after the GS
Your post echoes exactly that point.
All the top teams know how to beat Ireland and by extension Leinster.
It's why I posted about beefing up our BR.
Beefing up our BR is an attempt to make us less vulnerable at defensive lineouts for example.
We may suffer a little at the breakdown.
Then you see VDF's performance against the bulls and you wonder.
The litmus test is going to be the league games in SA.
I hope the lads have a plan B.

[mildlyinterested]

I've seen us beat those teams without one. Anywhere we can improve helps our chances.

Injuries, both missing players and carrying bad form, were more than enough last season to scuttle us.

A world class loosehead or a Rocky level 6 would have the same effect.

In the past we did when the team was stronger but the team isnt as good as it was in the past and this current team lacks top end power in the pack to compete with teams with more power.

Leinster have been found for several years in a row now when we cant win the collision game up front. Saracens gave everyone the blueprint and it hasnt changed.

VM1 did an hour on Matt Williams.
He said that England had figured Ireland out after the GS
Your post echoes exactly that point.
All the top teams know how to beat Ireland and by extension Leinster.
It's why I posted about beefing up our BR.
Beefing up our BR is an attempt to make us less vulnerable at defensive lineouts for example.
We may suffer a little at the breakdown.
Then you see VDF's performance against the bulls and you wonder.
The litmus test is going to be the league games in SA.
I hope the lads have a plan B.

VM1?

I imagine we wont be sending the intls to SA due to when the fixtures are scheduled.

[fourthirtythree]

I dunno. I think we've often beaten bigger, stronger packs in the past but what has changed is something with us and something with the way the game is refereed.

We profoundly lost the kicking game v la Rochelle. They played ROG ball: Kick Ball Always except instead of to touch as in his Munster days they kicked long as they didn't have a lineout. It's almost shameful to say that teams know they can kick long to our backfield profitably. This would have been a recipe for disaster for the last 15 years. Our backline isn't as good as it was. Not our pack.

The external change is that our possession based game was out of date. You can no longer hold onto the ball and play through people as the attacking team in possession is disadvantaged by the current interpretation.

It also means that you can't attack from the fullback as easily as before as breaking the line usually means losing close support.

[mildlyinterested]

I dunno. I think we've often beaten bigger, stronger packs in the past but what has changed is something with us and something with the way the game is refereed.

We profoundly lost the kicking game v la Rochelle. They played ROG ball: Kick Ball Always except instead of to touch as in his Munster days they kicked long as they didn't have a lineout. It's almost shameful to say that teams know they can kick long to our backfield profitably. This would have been a recipe for disaster for the last 15 years. Our backline isn't as good as it was. Not our pack.

The external change is that our possession based game was out of date. You can no longer hold onto the ball and play through people as the attacking team in possession is disadvantaged by the current interpretation.

It also means that you can't attack from the fullback as easily as before as breaking the line usually means losing close support.

true.

[Oldschool]

I dunno. I think we've often beaten bigger, stronger packs in the past but what has changed is something with us and something with the way the game is refereed.

We profoundly lost the kicking game v la Rochelle. They played ROG ball: Kick Ball Always except instead of to touch as in his Munster days they kicked long as they didn't have a lineout. It's almost shameful to say that teams know they can kick long to our backfield profitably. This would have been a recipe for disaster for the last 15 years. Our backline isn't as good as it was. Not our pack.

The external change is that our possession based game was out of date. You can no longer hold onto the ball and play through people as the attacking team in possession is disadvantaged by the current interpretation.

It also means that you can't attack from the fullback as easily as before as breaking the line usually means losing close support.

VM1 - Virgin Media 1
We beat French teams because their lack of futness was our advantage, that advantage has diminished significant.
Saracens have always been as fit as us, England too and the results are there to be seen.
They won't beat us every time but they'll beat us more often than not.
A key point as you have identified it is possession or how that possession is used
Gatlands Wales were the first team to match, neutralise and then better our kicking game and others followed.
We have been defensively weak at the lineout for quite a while now. Some of that can be attributed to technique but just as importantly has been a lack of physical power.

[Oldschool]

In the past we did when the team was stronger but the team isnt as good as it was in the past and this current team lacks top end power in the pack to compete with teams with more power.

Leinster have been found for several years in a row now when we cant win the collision game up front. Saracens gave everyone the blueprint and it hasnt changed.

VM1 did an hour on Matt Williams.
He said that England had figured Ireland out after the GS
Your post echoes exactly that point.
All the top teams know how to beat Ireland and by extension Leinster.
It's why I posted about beefing up our BR.
Beefing up our BR is an attempt to make us less vulnerable at defensive lineouts for example.
We may suffer a little at the breakdown.
Then you see VDF's performance against the bulls and you wonder.
The litmus test is going to be the league games in SA.
I hope the lads have a plan B.

VM1?

I imagine we wont be sending the intls to SA due to when the fixtures are scheduled.

No we won't be sending our internationals so it's an ideal opportunity to put as big a pack as possible onto the park along with our best defensive wings.

[wixfjord]

Worth listening to BOD this week on OTB. Made the point that its easy to pinpoint Leinster losing to Sarries/LAR as being down to power, but that's too simplistic and that a big part of it is game management and errors.

[mildlyinterested]

Worth listening to BOD this week on OTB. Made the point that its easy to pinpoint Leinster losing to Sarries/LAR as being down to power, but that's too simplistic and that a big part of it is game management and errors.

Losing the power battle up front causes more errors and poor game management.

[Keith]

Worth listening to BOD this week on OTB. Made the point that its easy to pinpoint Leinster losing to Sarries/LAR as being down to power, but that's too simplistic and that a big part of it is game management and errors.

Losing the power battle up front causes more errors and poor game management.

La Rochelle away was the toughest draw we could have gotten (imo) last year, I truly would have fancied us if the game had been played in Dublin. France has always been an incredibly difficult place to get a win, as we all know. There's a reason why our victory over Clermont in 2012 is so celebrated, it's our greatest ever victory (again imo).

[wixfjord]

Worth listening to BOD this week on OTB. Made the point that its easy to pinpoint Leinster losing to Sarries/LAR as being down to power, but that's too simplistic and that a big part of it is game management and errors.

Losing the power battle up front causes more errors and poor game management.

It definitely can do, and if you're losing the game up front it's up to the leaders on the pitch to alter the game plan.

If you re-watch the Sarries/LAR games with clear eyes, keep an eye out for the errors made and ask whether they were down to 'losing the power battle' or just players not executing under pressure. Luke McGrath kicking poorly in Newcastle, Ringer choosing not to pass, the lineout and scrum going to pot against Sarries at home, Baird knocking on against LAR, Ross B missing a kick from in front of the sticks against LAR, our lack of ability/willingness to kick out of our half against LAR.

Some extra power would help, but it's not the full story by a long shot.

[Dave Cahill]

The coaches bringing on the wrong player against LAR

[fourthirtythree]

The coaches bringing on the wrong player against LAR

Blatent coaching errors in that match for me.

[leinsterforever]

Worth listening to BOD this week on OTB. Made the point that its easy to pinpoint Leinster losing to Sarries/LAR as being down to power, but that's too simplistic and that a big part of it is game management and errors.

Losing the power battle up front causes more errors and poor game management.

It definitely can do, and if you're losing the game up front it's up to the leaders on the pitch to alter the game plan.

If you re-watch the Sarries/LAR games with clear eyes, keep an eye out for the errors made and ask whether they were down to 'losing the power battle' or just players not executing under pressure. Luke McGrath kicking poorly in Newcastle, Ringer choosing not to pass, the lineout and scrum going to pot against Sarries at home, Baird knocking on against LAR, Ross B missing a kick from in front of the sticks against LAR, our lack of ability/willingness to kick out of our half against LAR.

Some extra power would help, but it's not the full story by a long shot.

If you're going through a match with a fine tooth comb looking for incidents that would have changed things in your favour then you're probably already second best. There are probably similar mistakes Saracens made, but people aren't looking for them and highlighting them, because Saracens won (or maybe because Saracens were good enough to recover and not let their mistakes hurt them). The McGrath thing especially. That to me highlights that the whole team wasn't good enough. I wouldn't particularly see it as an individual error - especially since he was playing to a plan. Saracens were deep in their own half when they regained possession. My question is why couldn't Leinster as a collective put enough pressure on them with their defence and breakdown work to stop them getting all the way up the other end and scoring?

[ronk]

If you're going through a match with a fine tooth comb looking for incidents that would have changed things in your favour then you're probably already second best. There are probably similar mistakes Saracens made, but people aren't looking for them and highlighting them, because Saracens won (or maybe because Saracens were good enough to recover and not let their mistakes hurt them). The McGrath thing especially. That to me highlights that the whole team wasn't good enough. I wouldn't particularly see it as an individual error - especially since he was playing to a plan. Saracens were deep in their own half when they regained possession. My question is why couldn't Leinster as a collective put enough pressure on them with their defence and breakdown work to stop them getting all the way up the other end and scoring?

The reason why the McGrath thing is still a thing is because why we made that error is the important part. All year Leinster were a ruthless team who scored a lot of points at the end of the first half.

We're meant to know knockout rugby better than anyone else. So many times we played teams in big games that let the occasion get to them. The right call in Saracens was to hold possession and get to halftime. Shorten the game. So what if that's not what we do every other week.

We stopped being the smarter team, that's what hurt, not that they were bigger.

It was the same with kicking points v going for the corner. We correctly worked out that corner is usually the better play. But that's not true against everyone. The mistake isn't not executing driven lineouts, it's trying to do it against a defence that could hold us. We wore ourselves out playing their game by hammering their line.