Ruckedtobits wrote: ↑December 14th, 2021, 9:55 am
Interestingly, the best analysis of live scrums comes from the overhead cameras in places like Twickers, Stade de France etc. We don't have this facility in either RDS OR Aviva.
Anecdotally I've heard some schools coaches in Leinster are using drones during their "friendly games" to get good analysis and feedback on how their scrums are developing in live play and compare this against the true effects in training sessions. Now that is elite coaching. I'm sure if it's useful Leinster could arrange for the same facility.
Good point on the overhead views.
In fact you can often see situations where the 6 or 7 are pushing across the scrum rather than straight which is illegal and dangerous.
Mirror, Mirror on the Wall who's the greatest player of them all? It is Drico your majesty.
Essentially there is a huge pressure coming through each scrum, even before the Referee calls "set". There is a combination of strength, power and mechanics required from the second-rows to ensure the scrum is solid, low and generating power. In addition, there are different requirements of the right-side, tight-head second row and the loose-head, left side second-row. The latter has two backsides to push on whilst the right-side second-row must channel all his power through his right shoulder.
At the highest level, strength and power generation are essential, not just good mechanics. Ross Molony has good mechanics but he probably doesn't generate the same power as James Ryan or Dev Toner, partially because of his actual weight but also because of his physical strength. Likewise Ryan Baird is rangy and young, probably not yet grown into his mature strength and doesn't appear to generate the same mechanical strength in the scrum as others.
So, technique is important but raw power, weight and strength are absolutely vital as is the concentration to optimise all three components at the required moments at scrum-time. If a pair of second-rows, working in absolute harmony with their front and back-row colleagues can get their timing and effort right on a particular scrum, they may overcome a weight difference of 30 / 50 kg. However, if they are required to work right on the edge of perfect to achieve this, because of lack of weight and dependence on technique, they can just as easily be turned over & driven backwards if they lose concentration for even a moment.
Apologies for the long-winded reply but explaining and improving a scrum is a long-term project. You may get reasonable gains from initial organisation, but really sustainable progress takes time, hard work and repetition - think 20 by 5 repeats for each of 5 different sessions over a fortnight against live opposition, mostly because there are so many different moving parts.
Some players are innately great scrummagers, think Brad Thorn or Leo Cullen. Some big lumps never get there, it's not just size but mechanics and timing and also co-ordination. I'm a fan of our Welsh scrum coach and know that he has the expertise to improve our scrum and the output of our second-rows in particular. But it can't just be switched on. It requires repetitive hard work and multiple training sessions involving many others. There are always reasons why scrum sessions are postponed or shortened and that's the reality of professional rugby or elite rugby at any level.
I always felt that Ireland never got enough out of Bob Casey. Yes he wasn't the fastest around the field but in terms of mass and strength he would have been someone I would have kept around. Makes sense with O'Kelly, POC and DOC been so good but a missed opportunity.
Big Bob's cap return was shocking considering his strength and ability - and his leadership. From a Leinster perspective I always assumed him and Mal would be our starting locks for years.
During Bob's years at London Irish him and Nick Kennedy had absolutely ridiculous line out stats - I think Kennedy was Irish qualified too.
I always thought Casey was extremely unlucky he got capped so early, he was the wrong side of the Twickenham hammering in 2000, he started that game, got subbed early and subsequently got dropped and his stock went down, it could have been as easy that he was one of the new guys coming in for the the next game against Scotland having a great game and becoming a mainstay for the next decade. It seemed to effect his form for Leinster as well and the rest is history. I think there were 9 years between his caps at one stage, mad.
Will never forget his lineout steal against John Eales and Australia when he came on in the 1999 World Cup, beautiful.
"Horrocks went one way, Taylor the other and I was left holding the bloody hyphen!"
Ruckedtobits wrote: ↑December 14th, 2021, 9:55 am
Interestingly, the best analysis of live scrums comes from the overhead cameras in places like Twickers, Stade de France etc. We don't have this facility in either RDS OR Aviva.
Anecdotally I've heard some schools coaches in Leinster are using drones during their "friendly games" to get good analysis and feedback on how their scrums are developing in live play and compare this against the true effects in training sessions. Now that is elite coaching. I'm sure if it's useful Leinster could arrange for the same facility.
Those overhead cameras are great for examining binds, feet positions and lines of static/force as well as for comparing the two packs. As ruckedtobits points out, it's a pity more venues don't have them.
Ruckedtobits wrote: ↑December 14th, 2021, 9:55 am
Interestingly, the best analysis of live scrums comes from the overhead cameras in places like Twickers, Stade de France etc. We don't have this facility in either RDS OR Aviva.
Anecdotally I've heard some schools coaches in Leinster are using drones during their "friendly games" to get good analysis and feedback on how their scrums are developing in live play and compare this against the true effects in training sessions. Now that is elite coaching. I'm sure if it's useful Leinster could arrange for the same facility.
Those overhead cameras are great for examining binds, feet positions and lines of static/force as well as for comparing the two packs. As ruckedtobits points out, it's a pity more venues don't have them.
Pretty sure the set up in Donnybrook/Energia can manage something close to an overhead view using many cameras and software.
OTT wrote: ↑December 14th, 2021, 10:32 am
I always thought Casey was extremely unlucky he got capped so early, he was the wrong side of the Twickenham hammering in 2000, he started that game, got subbed early and subsequently got dropped and his stock went down, it could have been as easy that he was one of the new guys coming in for the the next game against Scotland having a great game and becoming a mainstay for the next decade. It seemed to effect his form for Leinster as well and the rest is history. I think there were 9 years between his caps at one stage, mad.
Will never forget his lineout steal against John Eales and Australia when he came on in the 1999 World Cup, beautiful.
Bob's problem was that he didn't play for Munster.
M. Mullins and Humphreys starting was a selection destined for disaster.
Would be interesting to see who was capped at SR for the 9 seasons Bob was sidelined
Mirror, Mirror on the Wall who's the greatest player of them all? It is Drico your majesty.
EPCR has received a citing complaint against the Bath Rugby wing, Will Muir (No 11), arising from his club’s Heineken Champions Cup, Round 1 match against Leinster Rugby at the Aviva Stadium on Saturday, 11 December 2021.
Muir is alleged to have made contact with the eye of the Leinster flanker, Josh Van der Flier (No 7), in the 14th minute of the match in contravention of Law 9.12.
Philippe Cavalieros (France), Chair, Val Toma (Romania) and Chris Watts (Wales) have been appointed as the independent Disciplinary Committee for the hearing which will take place by video conference tomorrow (Wednesday, 15 December).
The complaint was made by the match Citing Commissioner, Jeff Mark (Wales).
Law 9.12 A player must not physically abuse anyone. Physical abuse includes contact with the eye.
Under World Rugby’s Sanctions for Foul Play, Law 9.12, contact with the eye, carries the following sanction entry points – Low End: 6 weeks; Mid-range: 12 weeks; Top end: 18 to 208 weeks.
OTT wrote: ↑December 14th, 2021, 10:32 am
I always thought Casey was extremely unlucky he got capped so early, he was the wrong side of the Twickenham hammering in 2000, he started that game, got subbed early and subsequently got dropped and his stock went down, it could have been as easy that he was one of the new guys coming in for the the next game against Scotland having a great game and becoming a mainstay for the next decade. It seemed to effect his form for Leinster as well and the rest is history. I think there were 9 years between his caps at one stage, mad.
Will never forget his lineout steal against John Eales and Australia when he came on in the 1999 World Cup, beautiful.
Bob's problem was that he didn't play for Munster.
M. Mullins and Humphreys starting was a selection destined for disaster.
Would be interesting to see who was capped at SR for the 9 seasons Bob was sidelined
Not sure about that. There was a lot of nonsense about Mick Galwey who was lucky to get the caps he did in my opinion at the time but Gary Longwell got a lot of caps as a big physical lock who was paid to scrummage and hit rucks. Bob's issue was that he went to London Irish and didn't get picked because of that. The 2 munster locks who came through - POC and DOC were both exceptionally good players and went on to become Lions.
Bob was out of fashion. He was young and really big.
Ireland went for Galway: short, tough and experienced. All the other changes were much younger players coming in.
In retrospect I think Hayes was the big factor. The 6ft 4 ex-lock tighthead eliminated the need for Casey's power. EOS and Kidney wanted smaller locks.
Casey moved because he knew he was going to be out of favour. Just like Jennings, Brennan and Cullen. Strong competition and the wrong players for their international coaches combined to hold them out.
It's Johnny Foreigner's fault. The cheek and even after we cut them all off with Brexit. Luckily our local MP is Jake "Happy Fish, the Fascist" Moggy. He'll sort them out!
Love this bit.
"The former England Sevens star has been cited for allegedly making contact with the eye of flanker Josh Van der Flier in the 14th minute of the European Heineken Champions Cup match at the Aviva Stadium in contravention of Law 9.12.
Muir looks to have made contact with Van der Flier’s face while using the Irish international forwards head as leverage to leap to compete for a high ball.
The incident appears to be entirely accidental but was picked up by Welsh citing commissioner Jeff Mark"
Well that's alright then.
You know I'm going to lose,
And gambling's for fools,
But that's the way I like it baby, I don't want to live FOREVER!
blockhead wrote: ↑December 15th, 2021, 8:43 pm
Love this bit.
"The former England Sevens star has been cited for allegedly making contact with the eye of flanker Josh Van der Flier in the 14th minute of the European Heineken Champions Cup match at the Aviva Stadium in contravention of Law 9.12.
Muir looks to have made contact with Van der Flier’s face while using the Irish international forwards head as leverage to leap to compete for a high ball.
The incident appears to be entirely accidental but was picked up by Welsh citing commissioner Jeff Mark"
blockhead wrote: ↑December 15th, 2021, 8:43 pm
Love this bit.
"The former England Sevens star has been cited for allegedly making contact with the eye of flanker Josh Van der Flier in the 14th minute of the European Heineken Champions Cup match at the Aviva Stadium in contravention of Law 9.12.
Muir looks to have made contact with Van der Flier’s face while using the Irish international forwards head as leverage to leap to compete for a high ball.
The incident appears to be entirely accidental but was picked up by Welsh citing commissioner Jeff Mark"
Well that's alright then.
I’m sure that’s exactly what the referee said when it was pointed out to him. I thought if the referee was informed of eye contact he had to look at it but Pierre Brousset chose to ignore it
#LiveLifeLoveLeinster
#BeSeenBeHeardBeBlueBELIEVE
I'm a Book Mark and damn proud of it. Storm 1:08 forever
ronk wrote: ↑December 15th, 2021, 12:42 pm
Bob was out of fashion. He was young and really big.
Ireland went for Galway: short, tough and experienced. All the other changes were much younger players coming in.
In retrospect I think Hayes was the big factor. The 6ft 4 ex-lock tighthead eliminated the need for Casey's power. EOS and Kidney wanted smaller locks.
Casey moved because he knew he was going to be out of favour. Just like Jennings, Brennan and Cullen. Strong competition and the wrong players for their international coaches combined to hold them out.
You are correct to say that Bob went to London Irish because he was out of favour but he was offered a return to Ireland several times when he was playing excellently for LI
But he was being very well paid in London and chose to stay
he Bath Rugby wing, Will Muir, has been suspended for four weeks following an independent Disciplinary Hearing by video conference yesterday (Wednesday 15 December) arising from his club’s Heineken Champions Cup, Round 1 match against Leinster Rugby at the Aviva Stadium.
Muir was cited for allegedly making contact with the eye of the Leinster flanker, Josh Van der Flier, in the 14th minute of the match in contravention of Law 9.12. The complaint was made by the match Citing Commissioner, Jeff Mark (Wales).
Law 9.12 A player must not physically abuse anyone. Physical abuse includes contact with the eye.
Under World Rugby’s Sanctions for Foul Play, Law 9.12, contact with the eye, carries the following sanction entry points – Low End: 6 weeks; Mid-range: 12 weeks; Top end: 18 to 208 weeks.
An independent Disciplinary Committee comprising Philippe Cavalieros (France), Chair, Val Toma (Romania) and Chris Watts (Wales), considered video imagery of the incident and heard submissions from Muir, who pleaded not guilty to the charge, from Muir’s legal representative, Sam Jones, from the Bath Rugby Chief Operating Officer, Alex Cohen, and from the EPCR Disciplinary Officer, Liam McTiernan.
The committee upheld the citing complaint, finding the Muir had made contact in a reckless manner with Van der Flier’s eye that warranted a red card. It was then determined that the offence was at the low end of World Rugby’s sanctions and six weeks was selected as the appropriate entry point.
Taking into account the player’s relative inexperience, the committee reduced the sanction by two weeks before imposing a four-week suspension.
Muir is free to play on Monday, 10 January 2022 and both he and EPCR have the right to appeal the decision.
Dave Cahill wrote: ↑December 16th, 2021, 4:02 pm
he Bath Rugby wing, Will Muir, has been suspended for four weeks following an independent Disciplinary Hearing by video conference yesterday (Wednesday 15 December) arising from his club’s Heineken Champions Cup, Round 1 match against Leinster Rugby at the Aviva Stadium.
Muir was cited for allegedly making contact with the eye of the Leinster flanker, Josh Van der Flier, in the 14th minute of the match in contravention of Law 9.12. The complaint was made by the match Citing Commissioner, Jeff Mark (Wales).
Law 9.12 A player must not physically abuse anyone. Physical abuse includes contact with the eye.
Under World Rugby’s Sanctions for Foul Play, Law 9.12, contact with the eye, carries the following sanction entry points – Low End: 6 weeks; Mid-range: 12 weeks; Top end: 18 to 208 weeks.
An independent Disciplinary Committee comprising Philippe Cavalieros (France), Chair, Val Toma (Romania) and Chris Watts (Wales), considered video imagery of the incident and heard submissions from Muir, who pleaded not guilty to the charge, from Muir’s legal representative, Sam Jones, from the Bath Rugby Chief Operating Officer, Alex Cohen, and from the EPCR Disciplinary Officer, Liam McTiernan.
The committee upheld the citing complaint, finding the Muir had made contact in a reckless manner with Van der Flier’s eye that warranted a red card. It was then determined that the offence was at the low end of World Rugby’s sanctions and six weeks was selected as the appropriate entry point.
Taking into account the player’s relative inexperience, the committee reduced the sanction by two weeks before imposing a four-week suspension.
Muir is free to play on Monday, 10 January 2022 and both he and EPCR have the right to appeal the decision.
But all he did was "made contact with Van der Flier’s face while using the Irish international forwards head as leverage to leap to compete for a high ball"
And he gets Christmas off for that?
Lucky Barsturd!
You know I'm going to lose,
And gambling's for fools,
But that's the way I like it baby, I don't want to live FOREVER!
The banning system is a joke. That fella gets 4 weeks after deliberately gouging Josh in both eyes, but Brad Shields gets the same ban for an accidental collision that only really happened because the ball carrier was shunted sideways by another tackle before making contact with Shields.
I get that they're trying to lower the tackle height but for me the starting point for any ban should be if it's deliberate or not. If not then any punishment during the game and/or a warning should be sufficient.
LeRouxIsPHat wrote: ↑December 16th, 2021, 4:28 pm
The banning system is a joke. That fella gets 4 weeks after deliberately gouging Josh in both eyes, but Brad Shields gets the same ban for an accidental collision that only really happened because the ball carrier was shunted sideways by another tackle before making contact with Shields.
I get that they're trying to lower the tackle height but for me the starting point for any ban should be if it's deliberate or not. If not then any punishment during the game and/or a warning should be sufficient.
