Leinster v Bath Sat 11th December 3.15 Aviva

[Oldschoolsocks]

I’ll never know how that was not a straight red on the day, contact with the eye AND taking out the lifter

[outcast eddie]

Bath squad experiencing an upsurge in Covid cases, their fans are calling it the Dublin variant apparently.

[leinsterforever]

Okay guys, I've never been inside a scrum in my life, but its hard from a logistical stand point to see that our current scrum problems are down to the ballast in the 2nd row (as some hear claim). If we were getting pushed around the park I'd see the point but for the most part, in the last three matches the scrums aren't even getting started and the ref's have fallen back on the old policy in these cases to award alternate penalties, from one team to the other.

I know there's a few lads here know scrummaging well, so any thoughts on what's going on? and if it is down to the second rows, how are they causing it?

#EveryDaysASchoolDay

Essentially there is a huge pressure coming through each scrum, even before the Referee calls "set". There is a combination of strength, power and mechanics required from the second-rows to ensure the scrum is solid, low and generating power. In addition, there are different requirements of the right-side, tight-head second row and the loose-head, left side second-row. The latter has two backsides to push on whilst the right-side second-row must channel all his power through his right shoulder.

At the highest level, strength and power generation are essential, not just good mechanics. Ross Molony has good mechanics but he probably doesn't generate the same power as James Ryan or Dev Toner, partially because of his actual weight but also because of his physical strength. Likewise Ryan Baird is rangy and young, probably not yet grown into his mature strength and doesn't appear to generate the same mechanical strength in the scrum as others.

So, technique is important but raw power, weight and strength are absolutely vital as is the concentration to optimise all three components at the required moments at scrum-time. If a pair of second-rows, working in absolute harmony with their front and back-row colleagues can get their timing and effort right on a particular scrum, they may overcome a weight difference of 30 / 50 kg. However, if they are required to work right on the edge of perfect to achieve this, because of lack of weight and dependence on technique, they can just as easily be turned over & driven backwards if they lose concentration for even a moment.

Apologies for the long-winded reply but explaining and improving a scrum is a long-term project. You may get reasonable gains from initial organisation, but really sustainable progress takes time, hard work and repetition - think 20 by 5 repeats for each of 5 different sessions over a fortnight against live opposition, mostly because there are so many different moving parts.

Some players are innately great scrummagers, think Brad Thorn or Leo Cullen. Some big lumps never get there, it's not just size but mechanics and timing and also co-ordination. I'm a fan of our Welsh scrum coach and know that he has the expertise to improve our scrum and the output of our second-rows in particular. But it can't just be switched on. It requires repetitive hard work and multiple training sessions involving many others. There are always reasons why scrum sessions are postponed or shortened and that's the reality of professional rugby or elite rugby at any level.

Can I ask what you are basing your faith in McBryde on? He presided over a catastrophic scrum showing in that game against Saracens that really put Leinster behind the eight ball when it came to actually winning the match. He either didn't see it coming or was unable to adequately prepare Leinster's forwards for the scrum battle. That's not a great sign when he's a coach with a decade of experience coaching the scrum at international level. It would be a bit different if it happened under a rookie coach who was learning tough lessons fast and was showing he could improve. But McBryde should be at the peak of his coaching game.

Granted, a disaster of that magnitude appears to have been a one-off. But I still don't see much evidence that McBryde can mould a top-notch scrummaging unit that can't be bullied, isn't penalised often, can exert pressure when needs be and can produce really clean ball for the backs. The Springboks were able to win some crucial scrum penalties in the recent Lions series.

While I wouldn't exactly describe Leinster's scrum as a weak point, I don't think it's as strong as it could be either.

[SolomonPhilbrick]

Quick note to poster fourthreethree. As a Bath fan I accept all the criticism and ridicule coming our way at the moment;fully deserved, but I can at least be grateful for the fact that Rees Mogg isn't our MP, it's Wera Hobhouse and thankfully she's not even a Tory!

[fourthirtythree]

Quick note to poster fourthreethree. As a Bath fan I accept all the criticism and ridicule coming our way at the moment;fully deserved, but I can at least be grateful for the fact that Rees Mogg isn't our MP, it's Wera Hobhouse and thankfully she's not even a Tory!

I am deeply sorry for that ignorant, misguided, wrongheaded slur and if I could go back in time and take those awful words out of my mouth it would be a top priority.

For the record me and my Da love Bath as a rugby trip and my Ma loved the beautiful town. I look forward to going back and having fun with you all and am sure that you will be on the up soon.

Mocking local newspapers (which was the source of my slagging) is kind of an old tradition. I hope that local newspapers aren't really representative!

[blockhead]

Quick note to poster fourthreethree. As a Bath fan I accept all the criticism and ridicule coming our way at the moment;fully deserved, but I can at least be grateful for the fact that Rees Mogg isn't our MP, it's Wera Hobhouse and thankfully she's not even a Tory!

Some of my best friends are Baths

Fixed that for ya!

[SolomonPhilbrick]

Thank you fourthreethree, apology accepted! I'll leave the board to you Leinster fans now, but as you clearly understood, I can accept association with a rubbish rugby team, but JRM is a different matter entirely. Good luck for the rest of the season, although don't think you'll need much.

[SolomonPhilbrick]

Oh, sorry, fourthirtythree- got your name wrong... very small font. Definitely off now.

[fourthirtythree]

Oh, sorry, fourthirtythree- got your name wrong... very small font. Definitely off now.

Not at all. It's not my name!*

I have no excuses for associating you unnecessarily with JRM but my own pure ignorance though.


* It's the name of a "music" performance

[paddyor]

I've called you 433 in my head since forever.