Zebre v Leinster Sat 17 Sep KO 1pm RTE2

[curates_egg]

It's the kind of match where we've missed Rory O'Loughlin and Adam Byrne.

ROL will definitely leave a big hole, particularly with COB being unfortunately forced to retire.
Was great on the tough days but also never let us down in bigger games.

Adam Byrne though? That's some serious revisionism.

[Laighin Break]

A performance that mixed the good with the dreadful, but it's five points. Jamie Heaslip makes the point that this was in effect our second pre-season match. I don't like to single out young players for criticism but I thought that Max O'Reilly and Rob Russell looked far off the pace. Having said that, some of their more experienced teammates didn't look much better. Jenkins and Ed Byrne looked good.

Both certainly had games to forget. D'Arce was especially critical of Russell

[hugonaut]

Relieved to come away with a win there. A very poor second half from us; in contrast, a rousing performance from a Zebre team who looked full of pepper, who made multiple linebreaks, whose outside backs stepped and accelerated well, and who finished far the stronger team.

The lack of attacking threat from our backline was startling. Max O'Reilly played extremely poorly; you could make an argument that we may have been better with fourteen men on the field. Zebre showed enough appreciation of space and counter-attacking speed to have taken advantage of his absence, but his presence provided nothing positive for Leinster. Just the first game of the season, and he has already put himself in a hole.

Rob Russell looked meek and ineffective, the classic milquetoast caricature of a Leinster back. This is the pros: you're coming up against players from all over the rugby world, some of whom have had a lot more of a hard-scrabble ascent to this level. If he's not going to play hard and fast – not just stand up for himself but take the action to the other team – he may as well draw a line under that performance, walk away and do an office job. Rugby is a collision sport, it's always going to raise tempers. You have to confront aggression, not shy away from it.

Jamie Osborne has a lot more credit in the bank with me, but his performance too was poor. At least he brought his excellent exit kicking to the table, which is a positive for the team. If you take that for granted when assessing a player's performance, you're a poor judge. But it didn't balance the ledger with his inability to break through the defensive line and run for metres, or to close off the outside channels on the defensive side.

This is a professional setting, and players are judged to a professional standard. There are some mitigating factors – all three players are inexperienced and relatively young [and Osborne is just outright young, he's still only 20], it's an away game, it's the first game of the season – but those performances from Russell and O'Reilly were miles off what is required to play first grade pro rugby, never mind for a top level team. I don't think it's even 'A' level.

[Ruckedtobits]

First up, credit to Zebre and their new coaching staff and the attitude of their players. Fittest Zebre team I've ever seen. Great aggression while in possession. Good attitude and execution to counter-attack from our kicks and no intention to play kick tennis.

Defensively Leinster were poor. The less experienced members of the back three looked out of their depth and Osbourne's defensive failings of slowish feet were exposed by the quality of the Zebre's centres.

Leinster front five players produced what was required. Kelleher made a welcome return and showed his international quality. Milne scrummagged well and Ed Byrne was as lively as ever in loose play. Jenkins was very good and prospectively looks exactly what we need. Rhys was Rhys was 60 minutes. Deegan had a decent first half but looked sloppy and tired in the second. Scott Penny had possibly his quietest ever Leinster game and looked out of sorts by his standards.

Our half-backs didn't control the game and didn't translate our forward superiority into control in a first half which we dominated on the scoreboard and in the penalty count.

Very glad to get 5 points and don't begrudge Zebre their two points. However, I really hope Zebre reproduce that form throughout the season and, if they do, they will grow in confidence to make such displays victories.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Agree with most of what you said on Osborne Hugo but he had a couple of nice passes that others messed up, and he was in a great position to have a cut when MOR threw that awful pass to deck. I think in attack he was let down by others somewhat.

As good as his kicking is I’d like to see a bit more urgency in him getting back. There were at least two occasions when he allowed a slow chase to close him down when it didn’t need to happen.

[hugonaut]

A performance that mixed the good with the dreadful, but it's five points. Jamie Heaslip makes the point that this was in effect our second pre-season match. I don't like to single out young players for criticism but I thought that Max O'Reilly and Rob Russell looked far off the pace. Having said that, some of their more experienced teammates didn't look much better. Jenkins and Ed Byrne looked good.

I was saying the same thing during the match.

Ed is a good player at this level, but he looks like a pudgy farmer driving a faded blue 1998 Vectra. If he looked like Abdaladze and played like Ed Byrne, more people would rate him higher, and more people would be right.

I'm not saying that Vakh looks the part and is a paper tiger in reality. He hasn't played enough rugby to make a judgment on the latter, but when you see himself and Ed Byrne lined up beside each other, and you judge players on what they look like, you'd think that he was the international prop.

[Ruckedtobits]

As an aside, Bradley's brief summary of how and why Jenkins ended up with us was a revelation and explains a lot and also gives me confidence that we will see his best in Blue, Yellow and White.

[wixfjord]

It's the kind of match where we've missed Rory O'Loughlin and Adam Byrne.

ROL will definitely leave a big hole, particularly with COB being unfortunately forced to retire.
Was great on the tough days but also never let us down in bigger games.

Adam Byrne though? That's some serious revisionism.

You mean the Irish capped Adam Byrne who has scored 24 tries in 66 games, including in Euro knockouts? You think that Adam Byrne isn't an upgrade on Rob Russell on today's performance?

[LeRouxIsPHat]

It’s been a very long time since Adam was a liability in defence too. Staying healthy was his only issue IMO, very little wrong with his performances.

[wixfjord]

As an aside, Bradley's brief summary of how and why Jenkins ended up with us was a revelation and explains a lot and also gives me confidence that we will see his best in Blue, Yellow and White.

There's no way that can be true though.

Munster just forgot to offer him a contract?

Would have had to been signed off by IRFU in any case.

[curates_egg]

It's the kind of match where we've missed Rory O'Loughlin and Adam Byrne.

ROL will definitely leave a big hole, particularly with COB being unfortunately forced to retire.
Was great on the tough days but also never let us down in bigger games.

Adam Byrne though? That's some serious revisionism.

You mean the Irish capped Adam Byrne who has scored 24 tries in 66 games, including in Euro knockouts? You think that Adam Byrne isn't an upgrade on Rob Russell on today's performance?

Adam Byrne was prolific in attack. When fit.
But the poor guy was injured so much. Your stat says it all: 66 caps...in 10 years.
And defence was never his strength.

The claim that we missed him today is revisionism on that basis.

I'm wasn't comparing him with Rob Russell: I was taking issue with the claim that he was a player who dragged us through tough away days. He unfortunately never played or got to play that role for us.
I hope it works out for him in Connacht, and that he can stay fit and play that role for them.

[cormac]

It's the kind of match where we've missed Rory O'Loughlin and Adam Byrne.

ROL will definitely leave a big hole, particularly with COB being unfortunately forced to retire.
Was great on the tough days but also never let us down in bigger games.

Adam Byrne though? That's some serious revisionism.

Adam Byrne may have had a few forgettable outings for Leinster but he's several levels above Rob Russell in terms of ability and performances.

[wixfjord]

ROL will definitely leave a big hole, particularly with COB being unfortunately forced to retire.
Was great on the tough days but also never let us down in bigger games.

Adam Byrne though? That's some serious revisionism.

You mean the Irish capped Adam Byrne who has scored 24 tries in 66 games, including in Euro knockouts? You think that Adam Byrne isn't an upgrade on Rob Russell on today's performance?

Adam Byrne was prolific in attack. When fit.
But the poor guy was injured so much. Your stat says it all: 66 caps...in 10 years.
And defence was never his strength.

The claim that we missed him today is revisionism on that basis.

I'm wasn't comparing him with Rob Russell: I was taking issue with the claim that he was a player who dragged us through tough away days. He unfortunately never played or got to play that role for us.
I hope it works out for him in Connacht, and that he can stay fit and play that role for them.

He's a senior test capped player who scored loads of tries in mid level away league games over the years.

The comment wasn't that he 'dragged us through tough days', it was that we missed him on days like this when depth is tested. He's a totally different level to our #14 today.

Of course he's missed when you look at how poorly our backline played.

Did you forget him scoring a decisive try in a European QF against Ulster btw?

[OTT]

As an aside, Bradley's brief summary of how and why Jenkins ended up with us was a revelation and explains a lot and also gives me confidence that we will see his best in Blue, Yellow and White.

There's no way that can be true though.

Munster just forgot to offer him a contract?

Would have had to been signed off by IRFU in any case.

It must have been a clerical error, when they were renewing their locks they forgot about him because they had him listed as a backrow.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

As an aside, Bradley's brief summary of how and why Jenkins ended up with us was a revelation and explains a lot and also gives me confidence that we will see his best in Blue, Yellow and White.

There's no way that can be true though.

Munster just forgot to offer him a contract?

Would have had to been signed off by IRFU in any case.

It must have been a clerical error, when they were renewing their locks they forgot about him because they had him listed as a backrow.

[curates_egg]

You mean the Irish capped Adam Byrne who has scored 24 tries in 66 games, including in Euro knockouts? You think that Adam Byrne isn't an upgrade on Rob Russell on today's performance?

Adam Byrne was prolific in attack. When fit.
But the poor guy was injured so much. Your stat says it all: 66 caps...in 10 years.
And defence was never his strength.

The claim that we missed him today is revisionism on that basis.

I'm wasn't comparing him with Rob Russell: I was taking issue with the claim that he was a player who dragged us through tough away days. He unfortunately never played or got to play that role for us.
I hope it works out for him in Connacht, and that he can stay fit and play that role for them.

He's a senior test capped player who scored loads of tries in mid level away league games over the years.

The comment wasn't that he 'dragged us through tough days', it was that we missed him on days like this when depth is tested. He's a totally different level to our #14 today.

Of course he's missed when you look at how poorly our backline played.

Did you forget him scoring a decisive try in a European QF against Ulster btw?

Our depth wasn't tested in attack though. And I said he was very good in attack.
My point was (a) more often than not he was unfortunately missing on days like this and (b) his strengths were not what we were missing today.

Jesus. You'd argue with yourself. It's a while since I've been on the receiving end from you but I suppose it's my turn again today.
Here, why don't you watch this montage of his tries instead of arguing with me again over something I didn't say.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ey9EdAO_ZuA

[wixfjord]

Adam Byrne was prolific in attack. When fit.
But the poor guy was injured so much. Your stat says it all: 66 caps...in 10 years.
And defence was never his strength.

The claim that we missed him today is revisionism on that basis.

I'm wasn't comparing him with Rob Russell: I was taking issue with the claim that he was a player who dragged us through tough away days. He unfortunately never played or got to play that role for us.
I hope it works out for him in Connacht, and that he can stay fit and play that role for them.

He's a senior test capped player who scored loads of tries in mid level away league games over the years.

The comment wasn't that he 'dragged us through tough days', it was that we missed him on days like this when depth is tested. He's a totally different level to our #14 today.

Of course he's missed when you look at how poorly our backline played.

Did you forget him scoring a decisive try in a European QF against Ulster btw?

Our depth wasn't tested in attack though. And I said he was very good in attack.
My point was (a) more often than not he was unfortunately missing on days like this and (b) his strengths were not what we were missing today.

Jesus. You'd argue with yourself. It's a while since I've been on the receiving end from you but I suppose it's my turn again today.
Here, why don't you watch this montage of his tries instead of arguing with me again over something I didn't say.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ey9EdAO_ZuA

Yes god forbid you're pulled up on a nonsense point you've made (and then try to backtrack out of it).

Would Adam Byrne have started on the right wing ahead of Russell today? Yes.
Would he have made a better fist of his role in attack and defence? Yes.

So did we miss people like him & ROL to boost a callow backline today? Also yes.

Here's Adam Byrne with a lovely finish on a stick day in Zebre if it's highlights you're looking for.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XW93pso ... ampionship

[ronk]

End of the first half we took a goal line drop out long and gave them a free shot at a drop goal with time expired.

Hope they learn that lesson.

[blockhead]

Perfect start. Dodgy BP win.

[Oldschoolsocks]

End of the first half we took a goal line drop out long and gave them a free shot at a drop goal with time expired.

Hope they learn that lesson.

A 40 to 50 metre drop goal is far from a gimme