Ulster v Leinster Fri 7.35 BBC NI & RTE

[hugonaut]

Not many teams are going to go up to Ravenhill and take points away from Ulster, so even though the twenty-five minutes before the end was ropey, it's still a good and important win both for league position and for the rivalry between the provinces.

Ulster did us home and away last year, so I'm particularly happy to see us punch back and knock them over up in Belfast.

Match stats fro Ulster Rugby: https://ulster.rugby/match/271790/match-stats

[blockhead]

The soft quick hands for Bairds try. The simple things done well.

[wixfjord]

On first watch I thought Jack was quiet, but on a quick re-watch he was very impactful, particularly in second half. A few good carries off back of the scrum, some nice tidying of poor ball and generally solid.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Really enjoyed that. Think the score line flattered Ulster in the end. Okay we struggled with their maul, which is always very good, but we still managed to stop it well at times but outside of that I thought we dominated them in most areas and were very comfortable.

Said it last week about how we’d been joining mauls ahead of the ball carrier in the first two games and it was even more obvious last night, no idea how Lukey wasn’t pinged. We’ll be pinged some time soon though so hopefully it’s not at a time that costs us big and we sort it for when we need it most. The good thing is that by and large we’re getting set really well and getting momentum so there isn’t even a need for it.

Conditions were obviously awful so we were always going to make errors but I can’t think of any of our players who were outplayed by their opposite number. I think last night was another example of McCloskey underwhelming in a big game. Fair enough his forwards were beaten up but I still expected more. Timoney was incredibly quiet, thought he’d at least be a nuisance at the breakdown considering the conditions.

I saw EOS talking before the game about how the midfield battle would go a long way towards deciding it. Thought that was a bizarre take at the time and even more so when the rain hit. Ringshaw were both top class but our forwards were dominant in every facet and our halfbacks controlled the game so much better than Ulster. A lot of Luke’s kicking dropped perfectly just outside the 22, thought that was a big part of what got us on top. Porter had a huge game and if Baird continues like that I think he has to be our starting 6. Conan played well too but having that size at 6 alongside Doris just looks too good not to pick.

Huge mistake from Sexton not to finish that try but I get the feeling that he’ll be a serious player if he gains confidence and backs himself a bit more. He might not be having a big impact but is certainly improving from when I first saw him.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Two more things. Brace really does make some very strange calls. It was for both sides so it’s not sour grapes but his insistence that the tackled player releases the ball straight away while ignoring that the guy over the ball is illegal is really strange and at odds with nearly every other referee I’d say. There was the Conan call, missing what we did at the maul, missing quite a few obvious side entries, and I don’t know how he didn’t see Nick play the ball on the ground and in an offside position after we’d knocked on near the end.

Great to see Ngatai have such an impact as well. His try saver was obviously the standout but he’d shut down an overlap just before that with a brilliant read and tackle which he then followed up with a great counter ruck. A couple of very strong carries as well and you’d imagine there’s more to come as he gets more comfortable with everything.

[desperado]

Two more things. Brace really does make some very strange calls. It was for both sides so it’s not sour grapes but his insistence that the tackled player releases the ball straight away while ignoring that the guy over the ball is illegal is really strange and at odds with nearly every other referee I’d say. There was the Conan call, missing what we did at the maul, missing quite a few obvious side entries, and I don’t know how he didn’t see Nick play the ball on the ground and in an offside position after we’d knocked on near the end.

Great to see Ngatai have such an impact as well. His try saver was obviously the standout but he’d shut down an overlap just before that with a brilliant read and tackle which he then followed up with a great counter ruck. A couple of very strong carries as well and you’d imagine there’s more to come as he gets more comfortable with everything.

Brace also gave a dubious penalty against us for obstruction I think when Larmour? gathered a 'bomb'. I'd have to look at the recording again; but Birch was even a little incredulous in the commentary. Another was when Henshaw was tackled, clearly got his knee to the ground but was then 'dragged backwards with Ulster attempting to rip; surely at that stage it's 'tackle, release!!' He's not a bad ref, but inconsistent.

[cormac]

Even David Humphreys on BBC NI thought that obstruction penalty against Conan was wrong.

[bronxbull]

Great win.Great weekend up North.
Jenkins looks a great signing.Fitted in straight away.Scrum and lineout/maul both look better for him being there.

I don't think I would have been wetter if I was on the Titanic.

Biblical stuff in the land of the Bible.


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[wixfjord]

The last scrum of the game was really cracking stuff from us. Vakh & Ed did a great job getting the nudge on and JVDF makes little Dave cough it up.

There were some really big moments in the last 5 mins including J10's maul holdup and Connors dump tackle on Andrew.

[TMC]

Two more things. Brace really does make some very strange calls. It was for both sides so it’s not sour grapes but his insistence that the tackled player releases the ball straight away while ignoring that the guy over the ball is illegal is really strange and at odds with nearly every other referee I’d say. There was the Conan call, missing what we did at the maul, missing quite a few obvious side entries, and I don’t know how he didn’t see Nick play the ball on the ground and in an offside position after we’d knocked on near the end.

Great to see Ngatai have such an impact as well. His try saver was obviously the standout but he’d shut down an overlap just before that with a brilliant read and tackle which he then followed up with a great counter ruck. A couple of very strong carries as well and you’d imagine there’s more to come as he gets more comfortable with everything.

Find Brace an infuriating ref, but he was equally poor for both sides. Felt he also allowed Ulster to interfere with the 9 far too often without sanction. That said Ulster fans must be bulling the Henshaw tackle on Stockdale was not referred to the TMO. Looked dicey in real time and looks even worse on replay. Henshaw could well find himself on the naughty step and have to buy the nice biscuits as he tries to explain himself. We seemed to go asleep when 20-3 up and the intensity dipped, that happened at times last season too, has to be worked on, cant allow teams back into games that easily.
On the new arrivals Jenkins proving a smart piece of business, the drop off in power up front when himself and Porter went off wasn't good to see. Charlie Ngatai what a tackle, he just won over any fans remaining on the fence

[backrower8]

Appreciate this was a stretch for him to have any involvement once Sexton was in the mix and given he hasn't played yet, but it is now over 4 months since Harry started a match (against Munster in May) and almost four months since he came on for 24 mins against Glasgow in the URC.

If he is brought to Connacht it will be almost 5 months since he played.

He is not listed as an injured player. Meanwhile Leinster are wedded to giving minutes to Ross, who consistently fails to inspire, and the inspirational Irish Captain in his likely last season of rugby.

I don't get Ross. He needs the full XV around him if he is be worth his place and that is equivalent to being a useful passenger.

Harry needs to achieve what Ross has in order to get ahead of him. Think of Ross' performances against Exeter away, Montpellier away, Ulster QF etc. Why Ross is still with us when he would walk into most sides in Europe and he wouldn't have to listen to fans like you is beyond me.

Harry needs to stay fit and then get picked with reasonable regularity to have a shot at showing us what life without Ross might be like. I agree that Ross is a fine player (not more than that) who has played some very good games in the 131 opportunities he has had so far with some real clutch moments, Exeter and Ulster QFs stand out, so does a Champions Cup match versus Northampton in the Aviva.

However, I don't agree that he would "walk into most sides in Europe". Nor do I think that he is the future for Leinster in the 10 jersey that we should hope for. In my opinion, just that which I am entitled to, he is not good enough leading us in matches where his pack is a little under the cosh...plays too deep, etc

Oh, and I don't believe he is listening to this supporter either.

[Ruckedtobits]

It's too early to claim I'm worried but a re-watch of the game suggests that our front-five performance 'fell off a cliff' in the minutes after Jenkins was replaced on 55 mins. Further replacements up front took place 10 mins later and some aspects recovered somewhat, without ever getting back to the first-half dominance.

The Ulster pack's revival co-incided with the arrival of Moore and O'Sullivan, both of whom immediately made an impact on their direct opponents, notably in scrum and maul. Many observers consider that these two should be the starting props and their final 25 mins make a strong case for this view. Retrospective analysis is much easier than making decisions in the heat of battle but certainly these three changes swung the momentum of the game Ulster's way for the final quarter.

Ngatai's decisive tackle on Aaron Sexton was undoubtedly a game changer but Leinster will need to pay attention in the business areas to ensure that hard-won dominance up front is not lost before victory is actually delivered. A 17 point margin looks great on the scoreboard but is no guarantee of victory if your pack come under pressure with 20 minutes to go.

[Serb]

However, I don't agree that [Ross Byrne] would "walk into most sides in Europe". Nor do I think that he is the future for Leinster in the 10 jersey that we should hope for. In my opinion, just that which I am entitled to, he is not good enough leading us in matches where his pack is a little under the cosh...plays too deep, etc

Honestly, I think it is fair to say that Ross Byrne would walk into most sides in Europe, but we also have to acknowledge that most sides in Europe are nowhere near as good as Leinster. The point being argued, as you've alluded to, is not really how good Ross Byrne is as a rugby player broadly, but how good is he relative to what Leinster expect and need from an outhalf.

We don't need or want a very good outhalf, we want the best in the country, ideally Europe and maybe even the world. You can replace outhalf with any position in the team and the aspiration doesn't change. Obviously in reality, you're not always going to get that, but we've come pretty close with this squad of players.

To settle on Ross Byrne being our next first choice 10 is to accept a lowering of Leinster's standards, and that's the only standard we should care about. We need to find better (and it's clear we are searching for better too).