Worth remembering that the Guardian epitomised access journalism by relentlessly repeating the Premiership talking points about the ERC and how out of touch it was and how the clubs needed to take control to allow the competition to grow. It has struggled ever since with Heineken returning as the sole name sponsor with four slots to fill. Who would think that they could change the brand overnight?
While I don't think this journalist was one of the louder cheerleaders he's also wrong here. It isn't free market economics (not that such a thing actually exists or has existed anywhere) but hubris and the kind of stupidity that too much capital engenders that wounded the European Cup. Also an uncountered propaganda narrative from the English papers. That helped.
The Heino takeover and Brexit, so many similarities in the argument and in the result.
They fupped up a great and growing competition, their focus was the Prem and that has turned into a stinking turd. The French apart from a few with loftier ambitions could not give a bollix either way.
I remember Simon Thomas and his "hands across the Severn" tweets when they teased the poor fools in the valleys that might be able to eat at their masters table.
I remember Brian Moore going along with the ridiculous accusations that the success of the Irish teams had something to do with the presence of the ERC in Dublin.
They were going to build it into an even bigger competition and now look at it.
You know I'm going to lose,
And gambling's for fools,
But that's the way I like it baby, I don't want to live FOREVER!
alanair wrote: ↑December 11th, 2022, 2:03 pm
Identical tackle to the Healy RC one, this time by Warwick on Tualagi …Reynal the ref - outcome No sanction….I give up
not identical. Explained by ref, key difference was Warwick was passive. Healy was stepping forward.
Edinburgh ran Saracens close enough without a good lineout(shocker of a mixup for the BP) and scrum. Saracens fairly clinical when they got into the redzone but far from impervious. Really expected them to run up a score at home, to only come away +4 really opens up a home run in the knockouts after winning in France.
Ruddock's tackle stats consistently too low for me to be taken seriously as a Six Nations blindside..... Ruddock's defensive stats don't stack up. - All Blacks Nil, Jan 15th, 2014
England A 8 - 14 Ireland A, 25th Jan 2014 Ruddock(c) 19/2 Tackles
alanair wrote: ↑December 11th, 2022, 2:03 pm
Identical tackle to the Healy RC one, this time by Warwick on Tualagi …Reynal the ref - outcome No sanction….I give up
not identical. Explained by ref, key difference was Warwick was passive. Healy was stepping forward.
Healy was also passive - did you not read the report from the citing hearing ??
alanair wrote: ↑December 11th, 2022, 2:03 pm
Identical tackle to the Healy RC one, this time by Warwick on Tualagi …Reynal the ref - outcome No sanction….I give up
not identical. Explained by ref, key difference was Warwick was passive. Healy was stepping forward.
Healy was also passive - did you not read the report from the citing hearing ??
A Welsh side [the Ospreys] have a top tier competitive fixture at home against the English Premiership champions [Leicester].
They've got a team full of Lions and internationals – Alun Wyn Jones, George North, Justin Tipuric, Rhys Webb, Adam Beard, Alex Cuthbert, Tom Francis, Keelin Giles, Scott Baldwin, Jac Morgan – and the place is absolutely deserted.
alanair wrote: ↑December 11th, 2022, 2:03 pm
Identical tackle to the Healy RC one, this time by Warwick on Tualagi …Reynal the ref - outcome No sanction….I give up
not identical. Explained by ref, key difference was Warwick was passive. Healy was stepping forward.
Healy was also passive - did you not read the report from the citing hearing ??
No I didn't. I had a busy week working. Maybe you could have said "Healy was also passive, per the citing hearing report". Your comment makes you sound like a fussy teacher talking down to a student.
Twist wrote: ↑December 12th, 2022, 11:03 am
The format of the pool stage continues to be ridiculous.
Can anyone tell me what the supposed advantages are, as against just having normal pools?
It's what the people want, init?
Seriously though, I agree and I think most supporters do, in Ireland anyway. Even the guys on BT seemed to favour the old format, talking about how the back to backs would be happening now.
hugonaut wrote: ↑December 11th, 2022, 6:05 pm
A Welsh side [the Ospreys] have a top tier competitive fixture at home against the English Premiership champions [Leicester].
They've got a team full of Lions and internationals – Alun Wyn Jones, George North, Justin Tipuric, Rhys Webb, Adam Beard, Alex Cuthbert, Tom Francis, Keelin Giles, Scott Baldwin, Jac Morgan – and the place is absolutely deserted.
I was thinking the exact same thing when watching that match. Their belief that joining the rugby premiership will solve their problems is a joke, Leicester are the top team in the prem and yet the ospreys couldn’t fill even on stand.
paddyor wrote: ↑December 11th, 2022, 5:09 pm
Edinburgh ran Saracens close enough without a good lineout(shocker of a mixup for the BP) and scrum. Saracens fairly clinical when they got into the redzone but far from impervious. Really expected them to run up a score at home, to only come away +4 really opens up a home run in the knockouts after winning in France.
edinburgh managed to butcher a few gimmes...especially the intercept. jayziz! how did they not score that?
saracens were sloppy and are much better than that....that was their first game together in a few weeks - supposed to play worcestor last weekend. they have a massive point to prove after their championship demotion. I expect them to be in the mix in quarters but they haven't changed their game much since newcastle, for me.
I had to look this up, so I thought I would include it in this thread:
ERC
1995-96: Four pools of three [12 teams]
1996-97: Four pools of five [20 teams]
1997-98: Five pools of four [20 teams]
1998-99: Four pools of four [16 teams] - English teams refused to participate
1999-00: Six pools of four [24 teams] Same format for next fourteen seasons, including:
2013-14: Six pools of four [24 teams] - last year of Heineken Cup under ERC
EPCR
2014-15: Five pools of four [20 teams] - first year of Champions Cup under EPCR Same format for the next six seasons until
2020-21: Two pools of twelve [24 teams] Same format for the following two seasons
hugonaut wrote: ↑December 12th, 2022, 1:41 pm
I had to look this up, so I thought I would include it in this thread:
ERC
1995-96: Four pools of three [12 teams]
1996-97: Four pools of five [20 teams]
1997-98: Five pools of four [20 teams]
1998-99: Four pools of four [16 teams] - English teams refused to participate
1999-00: Six pools of four [24 teams] Same format for next fourteen seasons, including:
2013-14: Six pools of four [24 teams] - last year of Heineken Cup under ERC
EPCR
2014-15: Five pools of four [20 teams] - first year of Champions Cup under EPCR Same format for the next six seasons until
2020-21: Two pools of twelve [24 teams] Same format for the following two seasons
They have lost a weekend with the home & away round of 16 (is that still in?) which is great craic but 6 pools of 4 teams was my preferred format. doubt we will get back to that now.
No problem with the SA teams in URC - they have really added to the league, but I don't think it works with the european comps. french will start kicking up a fuss over the away legs in the middle of their season.
