Heineken Cup 2022/23

[paddyor]

What they haven't talked about at this stage (& it's the big indicator that they're unserious at this point) is the effect of SA and travel.

The English can absorb an extra week right now. It's a little harder with the 4th AI (which makes money) but still doable. Last year's HC was 9 weekends anyway and the French were able to do it then.

Number of groups becomes an issue. 24 teams is complicated as it's the original format they railed against. Cutting to 20 teams would realistically need 2 less English and 2 less French teams because of the 16 teams in the URC. That actually solves a problem for the teams that never cared about HC but they won't want to admit it or be seen to be less important than URC. Also the 2 teams who drop would want to be paid for missing out on a tournament they didn't really want to be in (it absolutely will happen).

3 SA teams (could be 4) playing 3 home matches is 9 teams travelling to SA. And no extra travel for Irish teams (Edit: I'm not right). It's 6 games this season but the extra knockout round closed the gap.

From a Leinster perspective we'd be giving up a game in Aviva (in a good year) for 1 RDS game and 1 trip. But if they fix this once glorious competition it's a fair price.

HEC or Challenge cup the English and French get the same TV money IIRC.

[neill_m]

42 dot ie and Daily Telegraph reporting that the organisers will look to return the competition format to the old one and better one of pools of 4 etc next season.

Just looked it up, thanks. Looks good:


Champions Cup set for radical overhaul

Key stakeholders cite an overcomplicated format and loss of revenues as the key issues with tournament's current setup

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... xt-season/

Paywall

Anyone got the text?

Sent from my LE2123 using Tapatalk

https://www.the42.ie/the42-paywall-subs ... =shortlink - Paywall related, 42 dot ie going down that road.

[ronk]

That's a shame. For anyone considering it the price is increasing from €42 to €60 per year next month.

[ronk]

HEC or Challenge cup the English and French get the same TV money IIRC.

They really have been trying as a group to lose money.

That might not even be enough for them to agree anyway.

[Serb]

That's a shame. For anyone considering it the price is increasing from €42 to €60 per year next month.

I pay the €42 and it’s pretty good already for what you get, assuming you listen to podcasts — two members podcasts a week and a very active rugby focused WhatsApp group that doesn’t tolerate assholes.

[MylesNaGapoleen]

Returning to the pool stages is a good move but it means the SA teams can't compete. It's simply not physically feasible for a top team to play back-to-back fixtures, a week apart, in SA and Europe. Basing their home games in Europe would be a farce.

SA teams in URC works well and makes sense....but not in the European cups.

In the same breath...I would sway towards 4 pools of 4..instead of six, to include Italian & Welsh qualifying teams. That would reduce the cricket score games during the pool stages.

[MylesNaGapoleen]

Edinburgh beat them only last weekend and shoulda won down there too.
Edinburgh are 8th in the URC.

Aye.

Bookies have 'em 4th favourites. I think they'll muster up a performance down there on the back of being written off, but I'd still fancy us against them, home advantage especially.

Of course, it's all so dependent on post 6N injuries and confidence.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Ospreys beat Saracens; again dependent on 6n injuries and confidence. Stretching it even more (credulity that is ) Edinburgh have an outside chance v Leicester, although I think Edinburgh are a bit headless - Ritchie is a loose cannon/loose mouth; and I don't rate him as a captain.

I agree about ospreys. they were excellent up front against us 2 weeks ago and really put our scrum & lineout under pressure. Both of which are pivotal to saracans game plan.

As an aside...the ospreys pack is essentially the welsh pack so we might be in for a tough afternoon up front in cardiff next week.

[riocard911]

Aye.

Bookies have 'em 4th favourites. I think they'll muster up a performance down there on the back of being written off, but I'd still fancy us against them, home advantage especially.

Of course, it's all so dependent on post 6N injuries and confidence.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Ospreys beat Saracens; again dependent on 6n injuries and confidence. Stretching it even more (credulity that is ) Edinburgh have an outside chance v Leicester, although I think Edinburgh are a bit headless - Ritchie is a loose cannon/loose mouth; and I don't rate him as a captain.

I agree about ospreys. they were excellent up front against us 2 weeks ago and really put our scrum & lineout under pressure. Both of which are pivotal to saracans game plan.

As an aside...the ospreys pack is essentially the welsh pack so we might be in for a tough afternoon up front in cardiff next week.

"Might"? Rest assured, AWJ et al are gonna bring their A game.

[wixfjord]

Racing beat LAR with a last minute penalty from Russell won in the scrum.

Cracking game.

[blockhead]

2023 EPCR PLAYER OF THE YEAR NOMINEES

Grégory ALLDRITT (Stade Rochelais)
Gavin COOMBES (Munster Rugby)
Caelan DORIS (Leinster Rugby)
Elliot DALY (Saracens)
Antoine DUPONT (Stade Toulousain)
Eben ETZEBETH (Cell C Sharks)
Jaden HENDRIKSE (Cell C Sharks)
Siya KOLISI (Cell C Sharks)
Makazole MAPIMPI (Cell C Sharks)
Julien MARCHAND (Stade Toulousain)
Emmanuel MEAFOU (Stade Toulousain)
Jamie OSBORNE (Leinster Rugby)
Garry RINGROSE (Leinster Rugby)
Justin TIPURIC (Ospreys)
Josh VAN DER FLIER (Leinster Rugby)

[wixfjord]

Creating a shortlist for EPOTY now is a bit ridiculous considering only half the games that finalists will play have been played.

I wonder can others who excel in knockouts come into it?

Jamie Osborne for example might not even make another 23 in the tournament and Robbie Henshaw might come back in and have 4 POTM performances.

[paddyor]

Creating a shortlist for EPOTY now is a bit ridiculous considering only half the games that finalists will play have been played.

I wonder can others who excel in knockouts come into it?

Jamie Osborne for example might not even make another 23 in the tournament and Robbie Henshaw might come back in and have 4 POTM performances.

They do. The shortlist done before the final will take into account the knockouts.

[Degz]

Creating a shortlist for EPOTY now is a bit ridiculous considering only half the games that finalists will play have been played.

I wonder can others who excel in knockouts come into it?

Jamie Osborne for example might not even make another 23 in the tournament and Robbie Henshaw might come back in and have 4 POTM performances.

They do. The shortlist done before the final will take into account the knockouts.

Yeah but its a shortlist from the shortlist.

As Wix said, Henshaw could rule the playoffs, or Itoje for Sarries, or xyz from any other team when the actual competitive footy starts.

[paddyor]

Creating a shortlist for EPOTY now is a bit ridiculous considering only half the games that finalists will play have been played.

I wonder can others who excel in knockouts come into it?

Jamie Osborne for example might not even make another 23 in the tournament and Robbie Henshaw might come back in and have 4 POTM performances.

They do. The shortlist done before the final will take into account the knockouts.

Yeah but its a shortlist from the shortlist.

As Wix said, Henshaw could rule the playoffs, or Itoje for Sarries, or xyz from any other team when the actual competitive footy starts.

I'm not defending EPCRs annual email harvest. But they will bring in players not in the longlist after the SF stage.

[Laighin Break]

James Lowe was added to the shortlist last year

Original List
Grégory ALLDRITT (Stade Rochelais)
Alex DOMBRANDT (Harlequins)
Caelan DORIS (Leinster Rugby)
Antoine DUPONT (Stade Toulousain)
Gaël FICKOU (Racing 92)
George FORD (Leicester Tigers)
Michael LOWRY (Ulster Rugby)
Jimmy O’BRIEN (Leinster Rugby)
Jack O’DONOGHUE (Munster Rugby)
Damian PENAUD (ASM Clermont Auvergne)
Semi RADRADRA (Bristol Bears)
Sam SIMMONDS (Exeter Chiefs)
Marcus SMITH (Harlequins)
Josh VAN DER FLIER (Leinster Rugby)
Cameron WOKI (Union Bordeaux-Bègles)

Final List
Grégory ALLDRITT (Stade Rochelais)
Caelan DORIS (Leinster Rugby)
Antoine DUPONT (Stade Toulousain)
James LOWE (Leinster Rugby)
Josh VAN DER FLIER (Leinster Rugby)

And I think Dupont got the original nomination having played < 80 minutes in the pool stages

[hugonaut]

The first one is a longlist, the second one is a short list. Not kidding. It's how the Booker Prize [amongst other prizes] is decided. A reasonably wide range of books is read by the jury, then they discuss them and come to a consensus on what books that a number of them agree on, and then the longlist is whittled down to the shortlist.

As LB pointed out above, a player can be parachuted into the shortlist, having not made the longlist, which is clearly a bit silly if you are a fan of systems and very practical if you think that awards should reflect reality. Having a long list at this stage is obviously a bit silly too, but it's harmless.

[Laighin Break]

And, in fairness, they do state in the announcement

"At the conclusion of the semi-final matches in April, the list will be reduced to five players by a combination of the public vote and the verdict of the judges, and players who have not been included in the initial longlist, but who make a significant impact during the knockout stages of the Heineken Champions Cup and EPCR Challenge Cup, may be considered for the shortlist. "

[Degz]

Fair enough, I stand corrected. Didn't realise they allowed themselves the wiggle room.

[wixfjord]

LEICESTER TIGERS
15. Freddie Steward, 14. Anthony Watson, 13. Guy Porter, 12. Jimmy Gopperth, 11. Harry Potter, 10. Handré Pollard, 9. Jack van Poortvliet, 1. James Cronin, 2. Julian Montoya (c), 3. Dan Cole, 4. George Martin, 5. Cameron Henderson, 6. Hanro Liebenberg, 7. Tommy Reffell, 8. Olly Cracknell.
Replacements:
16. Charlie Clare, 17. Tom West, 18. Joe Heyes, 19. Eli Snyman, 20. Jasper Wiese, 21. Sam Wolstenholme, 22. Charlie Atkinson, 23. Dan Kelly,


EDINBURGH RUGBY
15. Emiliano Boffelli, 14. Darcy Graham, 13. Mark Bennett, 12. James Lang, 11. Duhan van der Merwe, 10. Blair Kinghorn, 9. Henry Pyrgos, 1. Pierre Schoeman, 2. Stuart McInally, 3. WP Nel, 4. Sam Skinner, 5. Grant Gilchrist (c), 6. Jamie Ritchie, 7. Hamish Watson, 8. Viliame Mata.
Replacements:
16. David Cherry, 17. Boan Venter, 18. Luan de Bruin, 19. Marshall Sykes, 20. Luke Crosbie, 21. Ben Vellacott, 22. Cameron Hutchison, 23. Damien Hoyland,

This should be a cracker.

1-15 that Edinburgh side looks really good, particularly in the pack and back three.

If we qualify we would play winner of this game next weekend.

[Theleinsterlad]

LEICESTER TIGERS
15. Freddie Steward, 14. Anthony Watson, 13. Guy Porter, 12. Jimmy Gopperth, 11. Harry Potter, 10. Handré Pollard, 9. Jack van Poortvliet, 1. James Cronin, 2. Julian Montoya (c), 3. Dan Cole, 4. George Martin, 5. Cameron Henderson, 6. Hanro Liebenberg, 7. Tommy Reffell, 8. Olly Cracknell.
Replacements:
16. Charlie Clare, 17. Tom West, 18. Joe Heyes, 19. Eli Snyman, 20. Jasper Wiese, 21. Sam Wolstenholme, 22. Charlie Atkinson, 23. Dan Kelly,


EDINBURGH RUGBY
15. Emiliano Boffelli, 14. Darcy Graham, 13. Mark Bennett, 12. James Lang, 11. Duhan van der Merwe, 10. Blair Kinghorn, 9. Henry Pyrgos, 1. Pierre Schoeman, 2. Stuart McInally, 3. WP Nel, 4. Sam Skinner, 5. Grant Gilchrist (c), 6. Jamie Ritchie, 7. Hamish Watson, 8. Viliame Mata.
Replacements:
16. David Cherry, 17. Boan Venter, 18. Luan de Bruin, 19. Marshall Sykes, 20. Luke Crosbie, 21. Ben Vellacott, 22. Cameron Hutchison, 23. Damien Hoyland,

This should be a cracker.

1-15 that Edinburgh side looks really good, particularly in the pack and back three.

If we qualify we would play winner of this game next weekend.

When you see that team you wonder how the hell they are in the bottom of the URC