Tour to NZ 2022

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leinsterforever
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by leinsterforever »

Morf wrote: May 17th, 2022, 3:48 am Do sky have any rugby presenting staff left or will they just take a feed with commentary/half time discussion direct from Sky NZ?
I like hearing the home commentators from NZ or SA. Makes a bit of a change from Nugent, Robson, Quinlan et al.
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Oldschool
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by Oldschool »

neill_m wrote: May 16th, 2022, 9:20 pm Two games v Maori confirmed.

Wednesday June 29th and Tuesday July 12th, both 8:05am KO (Irish Time).

Sky Sports showing all 5 games in UK/Ireland.
That's like two more tests. :|
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neill_m
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by neill_m »

Morf wrote: May 17th, 2022, 3:48 am Do sky have any rugby presenting staff left or will they just take a feed with commentary/half time discussion direct from Sky NZ?
For Super Rugby Pacific, they just take the host feed etc for commentary and discussion etc. They have the Summer Tours of England (in Australia), Ireland (in New Zealand), Scotland (in Argentina) and Wales (in South Africa), so they may take the pictures and do their own commentary/analysis or just take the home feed for everything or a mixture of both (local commentary and Sky Sports studio analysis)??
kUD
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by kUD »

neill_m wrote:Two games v Maori confirmed.

Wednesday June 29th and Tuesday July 12th, both 8:05am KO (Irish Time).

Sky Sports showing all 5 games in UK/Ireland.
What's the turnaround time for each team?
URC final, likely Leinster and possibly one of the south African sides, 18 June; jump on a plane 19/6, arrive 21/6.
Super rugby final, most likely between the Crusaders and Blues, also 18 June.

So better than many previous tours where the first game is the week after a major final. First test in Eden park, where the ABs haven't lost since the 90s; although traditionally the first test is where a touring team has a chance (and Eden park typically hosts the 3rd test).

I have my tickets for the Wellington test.... Can't wait!
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Morf
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by Morf »

neill_m wrote: May 17th, 2022, 9:46 am
Morf wrote: May 17th, 2022, 3:48 am Do sky have any rugby presenting staff left or will they just take a feed with commentary/half time discussion direct from Sky NZ?
For Super Rugby Pacific, they just take the host feed etc for commentary and discussion etc. They have the Summer Tours of England (in Australia), Ireland (in New Zealand), Scotland (in Argentina) and Wales (in South Africa), so they may take the pictures and do their own commentary/analysis or just take the home feed for everything or a mixture of both (local commentary and Sky Sports studio analysis)??
Maybe a few guys/gals just on summer contracts for the tours.
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dropkick
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by dropkick »

In the group stages with Scotland being last and South Africa second last, to have a decent chance in the 1/4 final they need to put out a second string against SA and target a Scotland win.
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dropkick
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by dropkick »

Regarding the squad size. Initial thoughts are:

4 x looseheads
4 x hookers
4 x tightheads
12 x locks / backrows

4 x outhalves
4 x scrumhalves

4 x centers
6 x outside backs


That's 42 players (24 forwards and 18 backs). However the backs are flexible so I think there will be one or 2 less. Carbery can play fullback, Frawley can play a number of positions too.
Imo they'll take extra lock/backrows since 8 of them will be involved per game.


So a 42 man squad of 26 forwards and 16 backs is my best guess.
leinsterforever
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by leinsterforever »

dropkick wrote: May 18th, 2022, 9:06 am Regarding the squad size. Initial thoughts are:

4 x looseheads
4 x hookers
4 x tightheads
12 x locks / backrows

4 x outhalves
4 x scrumhalves

4 x centers
6 x outside backs


That's 42 players (24 forwards and 18 backs). However the backs are flexible so I think there will be one or 2 less. Carbery can play fullback, Frawley can play a number of positions too.
Imo they'll take extra lock/backrows since 8 of them will be involved per game.


So a 42 man squad of 26 forwards and 16 backs is my best guess.
It's hard to see anything other than the three current hookers being set in stone for the World Cup 33, so maybe, considering Healy could provide emergency cover, there's not much point taking a fourth hooker.
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by Ruckedtobits »

But if you lost one of the three hookers to serious injury in 12 months time, who would be the replacement?

That the strongest reason to take four to NZ in July
leinsterforever
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by leinsterforever »

Ruckedtobits wrote: May 18th, 2022, 12:11 pm But if you lost one of the three hookers to serious injury in 12 months time, who would be the replacement?

That the strongest reason to take four to NZ in July
Dave Heffernan, on the evidence of Farrell's squad selections to date.

Can any of Tracy, McKee, Delahunt, Tierney-Martin, D. Barron, Buckley, Scannell, Andrew or Stewart overtake him? There's not much time to change Farrell's mind. 15 months will pass quickly.
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cormac
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by cormac »

dropkick wrote: May 18th, 2022, 8:51 am In the group stages with Scotland being last and South Africa second last, to have a decent chance in the 1/4 final they need to put out a second string against SA and target a Scotland win.
There's a two-week gap between the South Africa and the Scotland games.
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neiliog93
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by neiliog93 »

leinsterforever wrote: May 18th, 2022, 1:50 pm
Ruckedtobits wrote: May 18th, 2022, 12:11 pm But if you lost one of the three hookers to serious injury in 12 months time, who would be the replacement?

That the strongest reason to take four to NZ in July
Dave Heffernan, on the evidence of Farrell's squad selections to date.

Can any of Tracy, McKee, Delahunt, Tierney-Martin, D. Barron, Buckley, Scannell, Andrew or Stewart overtake him? There's not much time to change Farrell's mind. 15 months will pass quickly.
That's a very average group of players. The only one who looks like he might be good enough within the next year to overtake Heffernan as fourth choice (and possibly also Herring as third choice) is D.Barron, but next season will tell.
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neiliog93
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by neiliog93 »

Possible 42-man squad:

LP (3): Porter, C.Healy, E.Byrne (Kilcoyne injured)
HK (4): R.Kelleher, D.Sheehan, Herring, Heffernan
TP (4): Furlong, Bealham, O'Toole, Milasanovich (give Milasanovich a go, he covers both sides, is 130kg and we already know all there is to know about Marty Moore)

LK (6): Ja.Ryan, Henderson, Beirne, Baird, Treadwell, T.Ahern....Ross Molony might force his way in here though.

BR (6):P.O'Mahony, Doris, van der Flier, Timoney, Conan, G.Coombes

SH (4): JGP, Murray, Casey, Blade
OH (4): Sexton, Carbery, R.Byrne, Frawley

12+13 (4): Henshaw, Aki, Ringrose, Hume...Chris and Tom Farrell have both gone off the boil. There's a case for McCloskey though, given his unique power, and maybe Tom Daly.

OB (7): Keenan, Hansen, Lowe, Baloucoune, Conway, Earls, Larmour...if you're going with Leo's recent preferences, you might cut Larmour for Jimmy O'Brien.
"This is breathless stuff.....it's on again. Contepomi out to Hickie,D'Arcy,Hickie.......................HICKIE FOR THE CORNER! THAT IS AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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ronk
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by ronk »

neiliog93 wrote: May 18th, 2022, 11:06 pm
leinsterforever wrote: May 18th, 2022, 1:50 pm
Ruckedtobits wrote: May 18th, 2022, 12:11 pm But if you lost one of the three hookers to serious injury in 12 months time, who would be the replacement?

That the strongest reason to take four to NZ in July
Dave Heffernan, on the evidence of Farrell's squad selections to date.

Can any of Tracy, McKee, Delahunt, Tierney-Martin, D. Barron, Buckley, Scannell, Andrew or Stewart overtake him? There's not much time to change Farrell's mind. 15 months will pass quickly.
That's a very average group of players. The only one who looks like he might be good enough within the next year to overtake Heffernan as fourth choice (and possibly also Herring as third choice) is D.Barron, but next season will tell.
Exactly. It's not clear who to invest Irish squad time with and whether there would be any benefit. So hold off and pick the form player if we need one later. Develop instead at provincial level for a while.
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ronk
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by ronk »

neiliog93 wrote: May 18th, 2022, 11:13 pm Possible 42-man squad:

LP (3): Porter, C.Healy, E.Byrne (Kilcoyne injured)
HK (4): R.Kelleher, D.Sheehan, Herring, Heffernan
TP (4): Furlong, Bealham, O'Toole, Milasanovich (give Milasanovich a go, he covers both sides, is 130kg and we already know all there is to know about Marty Moore)

LK (6): Ja.Ryan, Henderson, Beirne, Baird, Treadwell, T.Ahern....Ross Molony might force his way in here though.

BR (6):P.O'Mahony, Doris, van der Flier, Timoney, Conan, G.Coombes

SH (4): JGP, Murray, Casey, Blade
OH (4): Sexton, Carbery, R.Byrne, Frawley

12+13 (4): Henshaw, Aki, Ringrose, Hume...Chris and Tom Farrell have both gone off the boil. There's a case for McCloskey though, given his unique power, and maybe Tom Daly.

OB (7): Keenan, Hansen, Lowe, Baloucoune, Conway, Earls, Larmour...if you're going with Leo's recent preferences, you might cut Larmour for Jimmy O'Brien.
I think if you bring a 4th tighthead, it may as well be Moore. Otherwise bring 3 and let someone swap sides RWC style.

I get the development aspect at lock but that's talking about picking 3 lads who have Irish lads ahead of them who aren't going at provincial level. I can see why you'd reach for Baird and Ahern now, not Treadwell at this stage.

I think you want an extra backrow and I think there's a case for JOD and for Ruddock, at Timoney's expense.

3 scrumhalves can cover, an extra would be for experience. And he'd have to be Doak. Same with outhalves. Sexton starts, Carbery backs up, but then he'll want to double up for one of the Maori games, at least. Lowry or Frawley would give extra cover.

7 outside backs seems a lot too. I think rest Earls (&maybe Larmour). Bring Lowry. If everyone is fit it'll be a centre on the bench for the tests. 2 back 3s is already more than enough.
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dropkick
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by dropkick »

neiliog93 wrote: May 18th, 2022, 11:06 pm
leinsterforever wrote: May 18th, 2022, 1:50 pm
Ruckedtobits wrote: May 18th, 2022, 12:11 pm But if you lost one of the three hookers to serious injury in 12 months time, who would be the replacement?

That the strongest reason to take four to NZ in July
Dave Heffernan, on the evidence of Farrell's squad selections to date.

Can any of Tracy, McKee, Delahunt, Tierney-Martin, D. Barron, Buckley, Scannell, Andrew or Stewart overtake him? There's not much time to change Farrell's mind. 15 months will pass quickly.
That's a very average group of players. The only one who looks like he might be good enough within the next year to overtake Heffernan as fourth choice (and possibly also Herring as third choice) is D.Barron, but next season will tell.
Not sure about Barron. He shows the odd flash of talent but he is mainly average enough.
I think Stewart and Buckley are the ones to watch. Tierney Martin played well for Ireland u20s but is finding it hard to get past Delahunt so I'm not so sure about him.


It's hard to know with hookers. Maybe only reach their peak when they're 30.
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dropkick
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by dropkick »

cormac wrote: May 18th, 2022, 2:26 pm
dropkick wrote: May 18th, 2022, 8:51 am In the group stages with Scotland being last and South Africa second last, to have a decent chance in the 1/4 final they need to put out a second string against SA and target a Scotland win.
There's a two-week gap between the South Africa and the Scotland games.

I didn't know that but I'd still like to see the Scotland game targeted so any injury doubts, leave them out against SA.
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by Ruckedtobits »

ronk wrote: May 18th, 2022, 11:44 pm
neiliog93 wrote: May 18th, 2022, 11:13 pm Possible 42-man squad:

LP (3): Porter, C.Healy, E.Byrne (Kilcoyne injured)
HK (4): R.Kelleher, D.Sheehan, Herring, Heffernan
TP (4): Furlong, Bealham, O'Toole, Milasanovich (give Milasanovich a go, he covers both sides, is 130kg and we already know all there is to know about Marty Moore)

LK (6): Ja.Ryan, Henderson, Beirne, Baird, Treadwell, T.Ahern....Ross Molony might force his way in here though.

BR (6):P.O'Mahony, Doris, van der Flier, Timoney, Conan, G.Coombes

SH (4): JGP, Murray, Casey, Blade
OH (4): Sexton, Carbery, R.Byrne, Frawley

12+13 (4): Henshaw, Aki, Ringrose, Hume...Chris and Tom Farrell have both gone off the boil. There's a case for McCloskey though, given his unique power, and maybe Tom Daly.

OB (7): Keenan, Hansen, Lowe, Baloucoune, Conway, Earls, Larmour...if you're going with Leo's recent preferences, you might cut Larmour for Jimmy O'Brien.
I think if you bring a 4th tighthead, it may as well be Moore. Otherwise bring 3 and let someone swap sides RWC style.

I get the development aspect at lock but that's talking about picking 3 lads who have Irish lads ahead of them who aren't going at provincial level. I can see why you'd reach for Baird and Ahern now, not Treadwell at this stage.

I think you want an extra backrow and I think there's a case for JOD and for Ruddock, at Timoney's expense.

3 scrumhalves can cover, an extra would be for experience. And he'd have to be Doak. Same with outhalves. Sexton starts, Carbery backs up, but then he'll want to double up for one of the Maori games, at least. Lowry or Frawley would give extra cover.

7 outside backs seems a lot too. I think rest Earls (&maybe Larmour). Bring Lowry. If everyone is fit it'll be a centre on the bench for the tests. 2 back 3s is already more than enough.
This part of the thread clearly demonstrates how difficult it will be to be surprised by any selection for this Tour.

From my viewpoint only Alex Kendellan has really demanded a place by his performances. We need to have as close as possible a like-for-like replacement for JVdF and Kendellan fits the bill.
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

Tierney Martin is a guy I was so certain would make it after the 20's, McBurney too actually. Stewart looks a great prospect to me though and McKee does as well. He was excellent for the 20's but I was worried his development had stalled because I'd have expected him to have played for us more this season considering he'll be needed when Cronin goes, but he did look ready on the tour to SA.

The Maori games make the selection more complicated IMO. Take outhalf for example, Carty was third choice during the 6N and if it was just the three tests then I wouldn't see a need to change that, but do we really want/need him starting against the Maori? Maybe the coaches do want that because they have him penciled in for the World Cup squad and also want some experience out there, but personally I'd much rather Harry Byrne (IMO the top prospect we have) or Frawley (because his versatility is so important for a World Cup squad) got the majority of the game time. Similarly you might have some guys who are on the bench in the first choice 23 but start against the Maori instead. Take centre for example, Bundee has a good shot at the 23 jersey but maybe it'd be better to have himself and Hume with a young outhalf against the Maori and then some versatile player like JOB ends up benching for the tests. My gut says the coaches won't be thinking that way though and the selections will be quite predictable.
R-Dog
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Re: Tour to NZ 2022

Post by R-Dog »

42 man squad probably a bit Generous. Lions only took 37 on last tour.

Would guess at 2 x XV's
+ a Full Front Row
+ a Lock/BR
+ a SH
+ a OH
+ a Outside Back/Centre
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