jezzer wrote: ↑July 22nd, 2022, 4:27 pm
Looking ahead to the autumn, and with an eye on refining your potential RWC squad, pick your 23 to face Australia on the basis that we really want to win, but nobody who started a test vs the ABs can be selected, nor can Kelleher/Henderson/Conan.
Playstyle and player demands stay the same as today
I'd go:
Kilcoyne
Herring
O'Toole
Treadwell
McCarthy
Prendergast
Connors
Timoney
Casey
Frawley
Conway
McCloskey
Hume
Balacoune
J O'Brien
It’s a decent start but you’re 8 players short
Kilcoyne
Herring
Moore
Treadwell
McCarthy
Prendergast
Connors
Coombes
Casey
Flake
Conway
McCloskey
Hume
Balacoune
J O'Brien
Scannell
O’Sullivan
O’Toole
Bairdo
Ruddock
That Welsh lad from Connacht
Frawley
Larmour
jezzer wrote: ↑July 22nd, 2022, 4:27 pm
Looking ahead to the autumn, and with an eye on refining your potential RWC squad, pick your 23 to face Australia on the basis that we really want to win, but nobody who started a test vs the ABs can be selected, nor can Kelleher/Henderson/Conan.
Playstyle and player demands stay the same as today
I'd go:
Kilcoyne
Herring
O'Toole
Treadwell
McCarthy
Prendergast
Connors
Timoney
Casey
Frawley
Conway
McCloskey
Hume
Balacoune
J O'Brien
Just rewatched the 6Ns Ire v Sco match.
Kilcoyne got absolutely done in the scrum coming off the bench, coughed up 3 penos.
Against SA if an England happened to us it would be game over..
Loughman, Ed Byrne and Dooley are all better options.
Mirror, Mirror on the Wall who's the greatest player of them all? It is Drico your majesty.
jezzer wrote: ↑July 22nd, 2022, 4:27 pm
Looking ahead to the autumn, and with an eye on refining your potential RWC squad, pick your 23 to face Australia on the basis that we really want to win, but nobody who started a test vs the ABs can be selected, nor can Kelleher/Henderson/Conan.
Playstyle and player demands stay the same as today
I'd go:
Kilcoyne
Herring
O'Toole
Treadwell
McCarthy
Prendergast
Connors
Timoney
Casey
Frawley
Conway
McCloskey
Hume
Balacoune
J O'Brien
It’s a decent start but you’re 8 players short
Kilcoyne
Herring
Moore
Treadwell
McCarthy
Prendergast
Connors
Coombes
Casey
Flake
Conway
McCloskey
Hume
Balacoune
J O'Brien
Scannell
O’Sullivan
O’Toole
Bairdo
Ruddock
That Welsh lad from Connacht
Frawley
Larmour
My thinking for the back row is that in Conan and Doris we already have 2 great 8 options, so Coombes seems a bit of s luxury in a compressed squad. POM and Beirne cover 6 tho you'd ideally like to have one more 6 with you.
Prendergast gets the nod, tho there are a lot of 6s pushing him. Timoney can do it all. Obviously 6 is a push but he can play the VDF role to a very high level and his play for Ulster at 8 was really eye-opening.
Connors deserves a shot give the level he played at pre-injury.
jezzer wrote: ↑July 22nd, 2022, 4:27 pm
Looking ahead to the autumn, and with an eye on refining your potential RWC squad, pick your 23 to face Australia on the basis that we really want to win, but nobody who started a test vs the ABs can be selected, nor can Kelleher/Henderson/Conan.
Playstyle and player demands stay the same as today
I'd go:
Kilcoyne
Herring
O'Toole
Treadwell
McCarthy
Prendergast
Connors
Timoney
Casey
Frawley
Conway
McCloskey
Hume
Balacoune
J O'Brien
Larmour? 34 tries in 104 games for Leinster and Ireland. Might be a bolter too, Tommy O'Brien was close before getting injured.
jezzer wrote: ↑July 22nd, 2022, 4:27 pm
Looking ahead to the autumn, and with an eye on refining your potential RWC squad, pick your 23 to face Australia on the basis that we really want to win, but nobody who started a test vs the ABs can be selected, nor can Kelleher/Henderson/Conan.
Playstyle and player demands stay the same as today
I'd go:
Kilcoyne
Herring
O'Toole
Treadwell
McCarthy
Prendergast
Connors
Timoney
Casey
Frawley
Conway
McCloskey
Hume
Balacoune
J O'Brien
It’s a decent start but you’re 8 players short
Kilcoyne
Herring
Moore
Treadwell
McCarthy
Prendergast
Connors
Coombes
Casey
Flake
Conway
McCloskey
Hume
Balacoune
J O'Brien
Scannell
O’Sullivan
O’Toole
Bairdo
Ruddock
That Welsh lad from Connacht
Frawley
Larmour
My thinking for the back row is that in Conan and Doris we already have 2 great 8 options, so Coombes seems a bit of s luxury in a compressed squad. POM and Beirne cover 6 tho you'd ideally like to have one more 6 with you.
Prendergast gets the nod, tho there are a lot of 6s pushing him. Timoney can do it all. Obviously 6 is a push but he can play the VDF role to a very high level and his play for Ulster at 8 was really eye-opening.
Connors deserves a shot give the level he played at pre-injury.
Coombes is a freak, big and strong, quick enough and decent hands. I reckon he’d be worth a punt for sure.
jezzer wrote: ↑July 22nd, 2022, 4:27 pm
Looking ahead to the autumn, and with an eye on refining your potential RWC squad, pick your 23 to face Australia on the basis that we really want to win, but nobody who started a test vs the ABs can be selected, nor can Kelleher/Henderson/Conan.
Playstyle and player demands stay the same as today
I'd go:
Kilcoyne
Herring
O'Toole
Treadwell
McCarthy
Prendergast
Connors
Timoney
Casey
Frawley
Conway
McCloskey
Hume
Balacoune
J O'Brien
Larmour? 34 tries in 104 games for Leinster and Ireland. Might be a bolter too, Tommy O'Brien was close before getting injured.
TOB is a much better player than Larmour imo. Only problem is he can't stay fit.
Oldschoolsocks wrote: ↑July 22nd, 2022, 8:07 pm
It’s a decent start but you’re 8 players short
Kilcoyne
Herring
Moore
Treadwell
McCarthy
Prendergast
Connors
Coombes
Casey
Flake
Conway
McCloskey
Hume
Balacoune
J O'Brien
Scannell
O’Sullivan
O’Toole
Bairdo
Ruddock
That Welsh lad from Connacht
Frawley
Larmour
My thinking for the back row is that in Conan and Doris we already have 2 great 8 options, so Coombes seems a bit of s luxury in a compressed squad. POM and Beirne cover 6 tho you'd ideally like to have one more 6 with you.
Prendergast gets the nod, tho there are a lot of 6s pushing him. Timoney can do it all. Obviously 6 is a push but he can play the VDF role to a very high level and his play for Ulster at 8 was really eye-opening.
Connors deserves a shot give the level he played at pre-injury.
Coombes is a freak, big and strong, quick enough and decent hands. I reckon he’d be worth a punt for sure.
True but in a compressed RWC squad 3 no 8s is a luxury you can't really afford.
My thinking for the back row is that in Conan and Doris we already have 2 great 8 options, so Coombes seems a bit of s luxury in a compressed squad. POM and Beirne cover 6 tho you'd ideally like to have one more 6 with you.
Prendergast gets the nod, tho there are a lot of 6s pushing him. Timoney can do it all. Obviously 6 is a push but he can play the VDF role to a very high level and his play for Ulster at 8 was really eye-opening.
Connors deserves a shot give the level he played at pre-injury.
Coombes is a freak, big and strong, quick enough and decent hands. I reckon he’d be worth a punt for sure.
True but in a compressed RWC squad 3 no 8s is a luxury you can't really afford.
Maybe I didn't understand the brief?
I thought it was to select a team to beat Australia with an eye on the World Cup.
in the 15 or so months between now ad then there's a lot of matches to go, there's absolutely no guarantee that either of Conan or Doris would be in good shape so looking at another no 8. (who has played 6) is not a bad idea.
I also don't follow the whole well lets not bother with Coombes because we already have some players that play that position, but lets look at Timoney when we already have players that play that position - genuinely confused.
Coombes has something different, and it should be tested IMO
jezzer wrote: ↑July 22nd, 2022, 4:27 pm
Looking ahead to the autumn, and with an eye on refining your potential RWC squad, pick your 23 to face Australia on the basis that we really want to win, but nobody who started a test vs the ABs can be selected, nor can Kelleher/Henderson/Conan.
Playstyle and player demands stay the same as today
I'd go:
Kilcoyne
Herring
O'Toole
Treadwell
McCarthy
Prendergast
Connors
Timoney
Casey
Frawley
Conway
McCloskey
Hume
Balacoune
J O'Brien
Larmour? 34 tries in 104 games for Leinster and Ireland. Might be a bolter too, Tommy O'Brien was close before getting injured.
TOB is a much better player than Larmour imo. Only problem is he can't stay fit.
Not sure about much better - the kid has never played for Ireland and only has 20 caps for Leinster. Thought he was coming into some cracking form and was playing with real confidence and swagger before he got injured so hopefully that will return when he recovers. Larmour and Lowe are the 2 best attacking wings in Ireland in my opinion, I'd hate to defend them both. Other players have advantages over them in other aspects of the game but when they have ball in hand they are virtually impossible to stop - Jordan was regularly clocking up 100m a game this season (think he did it again vs the Maori).
When he's fit Leo seems to pick him, hopefully he'll get a run of fitness next season.
Coombes is a freak, big and strong, quick enough and decent hands. I reckon he’d be worth a punt for sure.
True but in a compressed RWC squad 3 no 8s is a luxury you can't really afford.
Maybe I didn't understand the brief?
I thought it was to select a team to beat Australia with an eye on the World Cup.
in the 15 or so months between now ad then there's a lot of matches to go, there's absolutely no guarantee that either of Conan or Doris would be in good shape so looking at another no 8. (who has played 6) is not a bad idea.
I also don't follow the whole well lets not bother with Coombes because we already have some players that play that position, but lets look at Timoney when we already have players that play that position - genuinely confused.
Coombes has something different, and it should be tested IMO
Sorry, i never really thought about the brief being a bit confusing. The thinking is - given the 6n is generally sacrosanct - to use the Oz game for a Possibles trial of sorts, like the Maori games. Get caps under belts at the top level and try som possible players for the plane.
Why Timoney and not Coombes?
Because Timoney has positional flexibility, which makes him far more likely to get in the squad. With bench positions outside of the specialists that's pretty much mandatory.
Larmour? 34 tries in 104 games for Leinster and Ireland. Might be a bolter too, Tommy O'Brien was close before getting injured.
TOB is a much better player than Larmour imo. Only problem is he can't stay fit.
Not sure about much better - the kid has never played for Ireland and only has 20 caps for Leinster. Thought he was coming into some cracking form and was playing with real confidence and swagger before he got injured so hopefully that will return when he recovers. Larmour and Lowe are the 2 best attacking wings in Ireland in my opinion, I'd hate to defend them both. Other players have advantages over them in other aspects of the game but when they have ball in hand they are virtually impossible to stop - Jordan was regularly clocking up 100m a game this season (think he did it again vs the Maori).
When he's fit Leo seems to pick him, hopefully he'll get a run of fitness next season.
It's harder for the smaller elusive types like Larmour and Lowry to shine at test level because the space isn't there like it is in the leagues and cups. So you need to be really nailed on with your other duties to be worth the punt. Conway and Hansen are fundamentally sound and Balacoune looks to be. I'm not sure Larmour has ever really put that beyond doubt, esp fielding kicks.
But let's see. I'm sure in the URC/ECC he'll be incredible to watch.
True but in a compressed RWC squad 3 no 8s is a luxury you can't really afford.
Maybe I didn't understand the brief?
I thought it was to select a team to beat Australia with an eye on the World Cup.
in the 15 or so months between now ad then there's a lot of matches to go, there's absolutely no guarantee that either of Conan or Doris would be in good shape so looking at another no 8. (who has played 6) is not a bad idea.
I also don't follow the whole well lets not bother with Coombes because we already have some players that play that position, but lets look at Timoney when we already have players that play that position - genuinely confused.
Coombes has something different, and it should be tested IMO
Sorry, i never really thought about the brief being a bit confusing. The thinking is - given the 6n is generally sacrosanct - to use the Oz game for a Possibles trial of sorts, like the Maori games. Get caps under belts at the top level and try som possible players for the plane.
Why Timoney and not Coombes?
Because Timoney has positional flexibility, which makes him far more likely to get in the squad. With bench positions outside of the specialists that's pretty much mandatory.
OK,
let's take Ruddock off the bench, TImony is now 20. As you said Timony can cover all 3 BR slots.
Anybody surmising about any future Irish selection between now and the announcement of our panel for RWC2023 should probably discount (maybe by 15 -20%) the selection prospects for anyone -other than Kelleher & Henderson - of those that weren't on this Tour.
The universal acclaim for the collegiality and friendships which this Tour engendered will be impossible to replicate in any circumstance between now and September 2023. Thus the value of this unique 6 week experience will proobably be considered by Farrell and his colleagues as a unique advantage to those who participated.
43 players were in NZ. Add in Kelleher & Henderson, bringing the total to 45. Only 33 will travel to France, so at least 12 of them are likely to miss out. Thereafter, the prospect of "outsiders" becomes a very slim chance, because it looks pretty hard to pick out the 12 who'll be left behind.
Ruckedtobits wrote: ↑July 25th, 2022, 9:47 pm
Anybody surmising about any future Irish selection between now and the announcement of our panel for RWC2023 should probably discount (maybe by 15 -20%) the selection prospects for anyone -other than Kelleher & Henderson - of those that weren't on this Tour.
The universal acclaim for the collegiality and friendships which this Tour engendered will be impossible to replicate in any circumstance between now and September 2023. Thus the value of this unique 6 week experience will proobably be considered by Farrell and his colleagues as a unique advantage to those who participated.
43 players were in NZ. Add in Kelleher & Henderson, bringing the total to 45. Only 33 will travel to France, so at least 12 of them are likely to miss out. Thereafter, the prospect of "outsiders" becomes a very slim chance, because it looks pretty hard to pick out the 12 who'll be left behind.
But, we'll all be watching carefully.
I would imagine all of Conway, Kilcoyne, Balacoune, and maybe even Connors would still have a shout, given they've all been in intnl camps.
But i agree with you. I think the coaches decided to treat this tour as a RWC simulation. Given how well it went, on and off the field by all accounts, the lads involved will have a big leg-up on the one who missed out.
I'd be very surprised tho if Conway and Killer weren't in the mix right up to the announcement. Plus there'll be the inevitable injuries from the panel that went to NZ that will open doors for others. The guys on the outside won't give up, nor should they, plus the coaches will have to have a much bigger list than the final 33, to cover injury and/or loss of form.
TOB is a much better player than Larmour imo. Only problem is he can't stay fit.
Not sure about much better - the kid has never played for Ireland and only has 20 caps for Leinster. Thought he was coming into some cracking form and was playing with real confidence and swagger before he got injured so hopefully that will return when he recovers. Larmour and Lowe are the 2 best attacking wings in Ireland in my opinion, I'd hate to defend them both. Other players have advantages over them in other aspects of the game but when they have ball in hand they are virtually impossible to stop - Jordan was regularly clocking up 100m a game this season (think he did it again vs the Maori).
When he's fit Leo seems to pick him, hopefully he'll get a run of fitness next season.
It's harder for the smaller elusive types like Larmour and Lowry to shine at test level because the space isn't there like it is in the leagues and cups. So you need to be really nailed on with your other duties to be worth the punt. Conway and Hansen are fundamentally sound and Balacoune looks to be. I'm not sure Larmour has ever really put that beyond doubt, esp fielding kicks.
But let's see. I'm sure in the URC/ECC he'll be incredible to watch.
I think Conway is very very good all round performer to your point. Hansen is a remarkable athlete with an incredible all round skills set - defensively superb. I have high hopes for Balacoune too but he's never really blown me away when he's played for Ireland, seems to play within himself a bit. I was thinking to myself that Rob is still young but he's pretty much the same age as Larmour and hasn't anything like the body of work that Larmour has. Ultimately Jordan can't grow in height of course and I'm still a bit confused why he was switched to FB at U20's given that's the position where that lack of height is most exposed. I can see what they were thinking in terms of him in in space but I actually think his biggest strength is finding space where there is none. Lowry looks very slight alright, when you've got a 120kg centre running at you that's a difficult battle to win.
Baloucoune only has two caps for Ireland and one of them included the brilliant try against the US when he got the ball on halfway, sprinted through midfield and then ran around a couple of players to finish it.
Agree broadly that Farrell will want to keep largely the same squad, and as BOD always says coaches remember players who delivered for them in the past, so someone like Treadwell playing all five games and doing so well in the second Maori game will be remembered, but a year is such a long time in rugby when it comes to injuries and loss of form that I’d expect a fair few changes.
For comparison, this was the team that played England last year. So having having gone through 2019, 2020, and four 6N games without a big performance we finally delivered one and look how many changes have been made since.
1 Dave Kilcoyne
2 Rob Herring
3 Tadhg Furlong
4 Iain Henderson
5 Tadhg Beirne
6 CJ Stander
7 Josh van der Flier
8 Jack Conan
Backs
9 Conor Murray
10 Jonathan Sexton (Captain)
11 Jacob Stockdale
12 Bundee Aki
13 Robbie Henshaw
14 Keith Earls
15 Hugo Keenan
Replacements
16 Ronan Kelleher
17 Cian Healy
18 Andrew Porter
19 Ryan Baird
20 Peter O’Mahony
21 Jamison Gibson Park
22 Billy Burns
23 Jordan Larmour
