ronk wrote: ↑November 17th, 2021, 10:39 pm
His leadership of Munster in grieving should be seen for what it was, shallow exploitation of a tragedy. Erasmus wanted rid of Foley but wasn't brave enough/didn't have enough pull to pull the trigger so he sidelined him.
I really don't think thats the case, there seemed to be genuine warmth between them and a good working relationship - I remember a presser they did early in the week of that Racing game and they looked very close - what you could call an easy friendship. Erasmus knew that Foley wasn't a threat to him - Munster had already sunk the knife into Foley's back. If one wantted to ascribe a mercenary motive to it, he was happy to have someone who would be a lightning conductor for supporter sentiment - but I don't think thats the entirety of it.
What I'm saying I guess is that he is absolutely genuine in what he does and how he acts. Until he decides to do and act the complete opposite. Then hes absolutely genuine in that. Theres a number of words for that!
Yeah but there was a period when he was still looking absolutely genuine but lying to everyone's faces.
Right from the start he accepted working with a sacked coach in the same club and bought into the lie. Foley's only hope to salvage his career was to play along, look happy and take the best exit he could manage while he still had value.
What coach is going to walk into that setup where you're pretending your job is different to what it is and go on to tell the truth later.
Someone like Richards was willing to let Tom Williams take the fall only while he thought it was a slap on the wrist. In the end he took responsibility and paid a heavy price. You could appeal to the better angels of his nature. I just don't have that feeling with Rassie.
I think the comparison is apt because World Rugby can really come down hard on challenges to their authority and set an example.
ronk wrote: ↑November 17th, 2021, 10:39 pm
He says the right thing when it suits him to say the right thing. But he also lies effortlessly and futily. He's a massive coward. He dressed up the demotion of Foley, he pretended he wasn't leaving and he hid behind a sockpuppet to intimidate a ref.
His leadership of Munster in grieving should be seen for what it was, shallow exploitation of a tragedy. Erasmus wanted rid of Foley but wasn't brave enough/didn't have enough pull to pull the trigger so he sidelined him.
JvG did the same with Felix Jones and Jerry Flannery. Replaced but not sacked, so they left before they were pushed. But they knew what was happening because they'd seen it before.
You've gone to far there ronk. You have no way of knowing that.
You know I'm going to lose,
And gambling's for fools,
But that's the way I like it baby, I don't want to live FOREVER!
I thought Rassie and Foley made a decent go of their partnership as DOR and coach of Munster respectively. I don't know what to think about Foley's career as a coach. It seemed to me at the time, that he plotted Penney's downfall in order to get the top job himself, but then the subsequent return to "up the jumper" turned out to be a huge mistake. That said, I admired the way he stood by Bleyendaal through all the latter's injury problems.
Foley was hugely loved in Munster. I thought the whole club handled his death very well and gave him a great send off. One can't really ask for much more than that. Rassie too bought into the whole Irish funeral rites package and played his part well. Using the Foley death bounce Munster managed to make a Heino semi and the Pro 12 final - in both of which they were completely and embarrassingly outclassed.
Say what you like about him "lying" about his departure back to SA. IMO, anyone who believed his claims, that he was gonna stay in Limerick only has themselves to blame. It was clear from the day one, that if the downward slide of the Springboks continued under Allister Coetzee, that SARU would call on Rassie to save the ship from sinking and that he would go. Everybody knew that. Munster fans or anyone else, who says they didn't, that he had a contract with them to fulfill or whatever, is codding themselves. With his protestations of undying loyalty, love, whatever to the Munster cause, he was merely going through the motions - as you do. I didn't have a problem with that, as that's how the world works. I defended him repeatedly to friends and family members, who criticised him for being a turncoat. The dude is a South African, ffs, of course he's gonna put the Springboks ahead of Munster every day of the week. That goes without saying as far as I'm concerned.
I thought Rassie was decent, how he gave Felix Jones a new gig, when the latter was dumped by Munster. I also think he and Jacques did an amazing job, considering the mess when they took over the Springboks, to lead RSA only two years later to victory at RWC2019. Fair play to them.
The waterboy antics and his video attack on Nic Berry after the first Lions Test last summer have really turned me against him. I think, how he behaved in this instance and subsequently, e.g. claiming he never leaked the video recording, is appalling. What I particularly didn't like and which hasn't got the criticism it deserves, IMO, is how he underhandedly played the race card with the accusation, that Berry hadn't in the course of the first Lions Test treated Siya Kolisi as RSA captain with the same respect he supposedly accorded AWJ. That was absolutely scurrilous. I have zero respect for him since then.
CiaranIrl wrote: ↑November 17th, 2021, 7:27 pm
The statement from Nic Berry is very powerful. I didn't realize that there were threatening emails to him before the video was released. What a colossal asshole.
"Needless to say, the whole situation has been an extremely difficult time for my family and me. As a match official I understand that our performances will be heavily scrutinised, especially in such a prestigious tournament. However, the public attack on my integrity and character is not something that should be tolerated in any workplace.
"... I considered officiating in a Lions tour comparable with that in a World Cup. The appointment is a honour which few achieve. However, due to the actions of Mr Erasmus, my family and I have endured a significant amount of distress and we will only have negative memories of the whole experience.
I feel that Mr Erasmus engaged in a character assassination of me on social media. I have spent many years trying to build my reputation as an international referee and in the course of his video which was posted online, Mr Erasmus has caused it immeasurable damage. Though a small proportion of the rugby community will follow the outcome of this matter, and in the process obtain an accurate account of what really occurred, the wider rugby community will only be aware of me in the context of this incident. I feel that regardless of the outcome and any sanctions imposed, my reputation as a referee and person will forever be tarnished.
Throughout Mr Erasmus' video he makes unsubstantiated claims about the incidents that occurred in the 72hrs after the first test match which I refereed. Throughout this whole ordeal I've maintained my professionalism despite being the target of an unprecedented personal attack played out in the media. The evidence attached is an accurate and detailed account of what really happened and should assist World Rugby in their judicial hearing into the matter.
I felt that Mr Erasmus' video brought into question my professionalism and my integrity as a match official and that there was an inference to be drawn that I was in some way cheating as an official, which is obviously completely untrue.
My reputation throughout the rugby community has suffered immeasurably from his actions and I acknowledge that the impending investigation will likely lead to more public scrutiny and unwanted media attention. However, his actions are against everything our game stands for and I feel it's important to take a stand against such behaviour. I sincerely hope that the outcome of the independent judicial hearing will set a precedent to discourage similar behaviour in the future so that no person has to experience what I have these past few weeks."
And this is the human impact. Rugby is a fast and very technical game. If refs are put under this kind of scrutiny their natural reaction will be to stop games continuously to check their decisions. Some of that hour long rant for Erasmus included things like crooked lineouts. Do we want games t ostop every time there's a lineout to check?
Imagine, it took him one hour to go through perceived injustices and you would assume that the Lions would have a similar number of complaints. So presumably we'd be injecting a very very lengthy period of time into game time. That's ridiculous.
Personally think the man is a disgrace and an embarrassment to the Springboks and I hope we never see him in the Northern Hemisphere again. Not particularly impressed with the reaction of the South African rugby community either, their fans are very hard work.
ronk wrote: ↑November 17th, 2021, 10:39 pm
He says the right thing when it suits him to say the right thing. But he also lies effortlessly and futily. He's a massive coward. He dressed up the demotion of Foley, he pretended he wasn't leaving and he hid behind a sockpuppet to intimidate a ref.
His leadership of Munster in grieving should be seen for what it was, shallow exploitation of a tragedy. Erasmus wanted rid of Foley but wasn't brave enough/didn't have enough pull to pull the trigger so he sidelined him.
JvG did the same with Felix Jones and Jerry Flannery. Replaced but not sacked, so they left before they were pushed. But they knew what was happening because they'd seen it before.
You've gone to far there ronk. You have no way of knowing that.
Maybe. I'm not convinced he deserves any benefit of the doubt. He gained a lot from Foley's death and he's ruthless. He's been cynical about everything else.
I accept almost all of the criticism of Erasmus as valid and I believe that it presents a fascinating opportunity to SA Rugby players over the weekend facing a replay of the World Cup final against a weaker English team enervated by 82,000 fanatics and with the world rugby community raining opprobrium on their heads and ignoring the claims of at least two valid candidates for World Player of the year (although Dupont will deservedly be acclaimed).
South Africa, apartheid version, would have relished a challenge of this sort and rose to it in 1995 RWC. Can this version of World Champions rise to this challenge and tear the wheels off the Chariot in their own Coliseum, having already emasculated and slain the Lions?
ronk wrote: ↑November 17th, 2021, 10:39 pm
His leadership of Munster in grieving should be seen for what it was, shallow exploitation of a tragedy. Erasmus wanted rid of Foley but wasn't brave enough/didn't have enough pull to pull the trigger so he sidelined him.
ronk wrote: ↑November 17th, 2021, 10:39 pm
He says the right thing when it suits him to say the right thing. But he also lies effortlessly and futily. He's a massive coward. He dressed up the demotion of Foley, he pretended he wasn't leaving and he hid behind a sockpuppet to intimidate a ref.
His leadership of Munster in grieving should be seen for what it was, shallow exploitation of a tragedy. Erasmus wanted rid of Foley but wasn't brave enough/didn't have enough pull to pull the trigger so he sidelined him.
JvG did the same with Felix Jones and Jerry Flannery. Replaced but not sacked, so they left before they were pushed. But they knew what was happening because they'd seen it before.
You've gone to far there ronk. You have no way of knowing that.
Maybe. I'm not convinced he deserves any benefit of the doubt. He gained a lot from Foley's death and he's ruthless. He's been cynical about everything else.
Certainly ruthless. He fixed South Africa's JVG problem by shipping him to munster.
You've gone to far there ronk. You have no way of knowing that.
Maybe. I'm not convinced he deserves any benefit of the doubt. He gained a lot from Foley's death and he's ruthless. He's been cynical about everything else.
Certainly ruthless. He fixed South Africa's JVG problem by shipping him to munster.
Still can't understand why Munster would have had anything to do with Rassies advice.
You know I'm going to lose,
And gambling's for fools,
But that's the way I like it baby, I don't want to live FOREVER!
After may drops that and Reinach comes in, I’d like to see a penalty for mouthing. That sets a marker straight off. This game could be bad tempered here.
Fan with smartphone wrote: ↑November 20th, 2021, 3:28 pm
After may drops that and Reinach comes in, I’d like to see a penalty for mouthing. That sets a marker straight off. This game could be bad tempered here.
Good point. England can do without allowing RSA to drag them into the trenches!
Fan with smartphone wrote: ↑November 20th, 2021, 3:28 pm
After may drops that and Reinach comes in, I’d like to see a penalty for mouthing. That sets a marker straight off. This game could be bad tempered here.
Good point. England can do without allowing RSA to drag them into the trenches!
England missing power from Genge, Tuilagi alright.
