Ireland Autumn Internationals 2021

[Oldschool]

Connacht

Hence the Connaught (Geographically) ie the location of the Connacht rugby team.
You missed the important bit.
Carty and Sexton are the two in form OHs

[Oldschool]

Dropkick: "... Herring is experienced and technically good". Birch on the42 podcast last week was saying RH was the best line out thrower he'd ever seen.

He must of never watched Aaron Dundon so!

That and the fact that RH isn't the best thrower or even close to being the best hooker either.

[hugonaut]

Fantastic analysis.

Yes, fantastic analysis.

I think we should still be including Dan Leavy in in-depth analysis like this. When considering the 7 slot, VDF is rightly seen as a shoe-in and reference is made to Connors being injured, with Timoney's selection justified.

Timoney is a doughty, adaptable No.8, who is also pretty pacy...but he is not in Leavy's league and Leavy is genuinely back based on his displays this season, but especially against Glasgow. The man can change the shape of a game. If he stays injury free, I expect him to play himself into the 6N squad.

He is also an outstanding leader, be that in terms of playing by example or through verbal and general encouragement of his team mates (moving around and motivating/cajoling during breaks in play). The only area we can't assess him on is referee engagement, but there are times in matches where he has a word on the side and can be seen making his point through whoever the Captain is.

He is a much more natural leader than Henderson or Ryan and has captained in the past at Ireland U20 level and a winning SCT team in 2012 when leading underdogs, Michael's to beat fancied Champions Clongowes in what is remembered as Leavy's final. The day before the match he took the team for a meeting and told them that he would take care of Clongowes' front-row Byrne brothers by himself and the team could deal with the rest. Sure its Roy of the Rovers stuff, and there will be some who scoff at a reference schoolboy heroics in this contect, but it is indicative of his leadership qualities and the fact is he delivered on that claim.

He is a world-class player and oozes leadership which we don't have much of in the squad outside of Sexton and POM.

Agreed about Leavy. If he gets back near his best he will be back in the squad. Timoney I'm not sure about but he is an athlete. 114kgs, fast and scores tries.


There has been talk of Jack O'Donoghue but I'm not convinced. Hodnett is one to watch though and Paul Boyle has been playing well for Connacht and brings plenty of good attributes.


Great to see Sheehan added. We've never looked as strong at hooker. Kelleher and Sheehan are raw but Herring is experienced and technically good. Nice balance there.


Prop wise, I was on the fence about Porters move because of depth at tighthead but thinking about it, the gamble could also pay off. As long as TOT and Bealham can hold their own.


Second row looks ok. There isn't a massive tighthead lock but they're still quality players. Franco Mostert is on 112kgs. In the coming years we have Baird and Ahern but we could do with one or two more. No rush though as none of the current lot are old.


9 and 10 look ok-ish. There was a time when we had nobody coming through but there are now. Casey and Doak are 2 talents and very young yet especially Doak. Murray is on his way out but theres talent there now. It was a problem position.

Sexton won't make the next world cup imo. He's too fragile. Carbery and Harry are also fragile which is an issue with them as they're always injured, especially Harry. I'm not sure about Ben Healy yet but Crowley looks like he could be special. We're not too badly off at all. Carbery has played poorly but Dan Carter would struggle to function in that munster attack.


Centers I'm not sure about. Ringrose isn't a great link player. He is too much heads down. Frawley is an interesting selection. I'd like to see him in a big international. He would be something different and if ireland want to play a quicker game then he would be a good choice. Hume also looks good and is a bit like Frawley but plays 13. Not sure about Aki or McCloskey. I've watched Farrell for a few years now for Munster and Ireland and he is a good solid player but doesn't do much.


Back 3 options are plenty. Keenan has taken the 15 jersey after a great year. The question is who are on the wings.

I agree with a lot of what you have written Dropkick, and as always you make your points well. I have some differences of opinion though.

From my perspective, Hume and Frawley are not alike at all – Frawley is a No12 whose strengths are those of a footballer [decision-making, passing, kicking from hand and place-kicking], and Hume is a No13 whose strengths are those of an athlete [pace, explosive power and balance]. I think they could potentially combine well, but they have a long way to go to get to the point of displacing the players above them.

Addison should be a big loss given his talent, but he has played so little rugby for Ireland that we won't really feel the loss. He should have been able to put pressure on Ringrose for this series. Ringrose has had an off colour 2021 but was IRUPA Players' Player of the Year in 2020 ... I have no doubts that he will find his way back into form within a few months, but he's a little vulnerable at the moment.

This is quite harsh, but at the moment Chris Farrell is no loss. His most recent form for Munster was very ordinary before his injury; he's got slow feet, no change of direction, ordinary pace, little sense of invention, he can't kick off either foot and is a no-better-than-average passer for an outside centre. When he's not very confident and physically bossing his opposite man, he hasn't got much to impact a game. He needs to find some sort of energy that makes him the focal point of Munster's backline, and he still needs to improve his technical weaknesses.

The thing about McCloskey is that he plays consistently well all season for Ulster and did well for Ireland at the end of last season when he got his chance in the two summer games. He's on the outside of the gang of three of Henshaw, Aki and Ringose because he's a No12 and nothing else. And he's third choice No12 - a good third choice No12, but it's a touch scene. I think Tom Daly has a wider game than him and obviously has a better kicking game [both out of hand and off the ground], so maybe he would be worth a look.

[ronk]

Daly is 28. It's a bit late for investment that far down the depth chart barring potential for big improvement or upcoming holes in the squad or tactical considerations.

[Morf]

Dropkick: "... Herring is experienced and technically good". Birch on the42 podcast last week was saying RH was the best line out thrower he'd ever seen.

He's a very ordinary athlete at test level unfortunately. His throwing is definitely reliable but if the lineout is misfiring then he's a weaker link in attack and defense in terms of physicality.
Not a slight on him just an unfortunate fact that's highlighted with presence of Kelleher and Sheeahan who are gifted in that element of their game.

[riocard911]

Dropkick: "... Herring is experienced and technically good". Birch on the42 podcast last week was saying RH was the best line out thrower he'd ever seen.

He's a very ordinary athlete at test level unfortunately. His throwing is definitely reliable but if the lineout is misfiring then he's a weaker link in attack and defense in terms of physicality.
Not a slight on him just an unfortunate fact that's highlighted with presence of Kelleher and Sheeahan who are gifted in that element of their game.

+1

[CiaranIrl]

It seems like a missed opportunity for Ireland, where we could have had a game this weekend outside the test window. Scotland are playing Tonga, and obviously Wales are playing NZ. The provinces aren't playing, and teams are touring and looking for games. A game against Fiji seems like it was an obvious opportunity. We missed out on a Fiji tour, and as it played out, Best is on the Fiji coaching ticket.

Given we have missed out on so many games due to Covid (two summer tours cancelled over two seasons, and an entire November window was lost), this could have been an opportunity to get a look at a whole bunch of younger players. We could have capped Ben Healy (and locked out Scotland nonsense while we were at it), Doak, Sheehan, Frawley etc. and tried a few new things - Healy at TH or whatever.

[Leinster Lout]

Would anyone know any pubs in Dublin that are showing the Wales NZ match? I think it’s just on Amazon?

[fourthirtythree]

Would anyone know any pubs in Dublin that are showing the Wales NZ match? I think it’s just on Amazon?

Fortunately WRU care only about milking the cash cow.

Still think we should have tried to play someone like Tonga first like Scotland did. There is difficulty getting game time in the URC and then there isn't so much room for rotation even on the AIs. I'd cap Healy for a start. For me he's further on the pathway than Casey, and has more potential.

I know the IRFU don't care about the world cup. But I do.

[riocard911]

FT: Wales 16-54 NZ. Wales were second-rate in every department - and that's being charitable. Hopefully our fellas will at least give NZ a game and not go down without even properly landing a shot.

[Dave Cahill]

FT: Wales 16-54 NZ. Wales were second-rate in every department - and that's being charitable. Hopefully our fellas will at least give NZ a game and not go down without even properly landing a shot.

Take 20 players out of the Irish squad, see how we'd do then.

Wales got exactly what they wanted out of this game. A big bag of cash.

[riocard911]

FT: Wales 16-54 NZ. Wales were second-rate in every department - and that's being charitable. Hopefully our fellas will at least give NZ a game and not go down without even properly landing a shot.

Take 20 players out of the Irish squad, see how we'd do then.

Wales got exactly what they wanted out of this game. A big bag of cash.

Keeping an eye on the bottom-line there, Dave. Good man!!!

[fourthirtythree]

No. Literally, that is what the WRU cared about. It's just a money game.

[RoboProp]

No. Literally, that is what the WRU cared about. It's just a money game.

Exactly, they packed out the Millennium, and took some of Jeffy B's lovely lolly and ABs went full Harlem Globetrotters on the Welsh "A" team for the last fufteen (deliberate)

[fourthirtythree]

And we will be in a position to criticise when our national team is more successful than theirs.

Currently that looks like it will happen via their decline rather than us becoming successful

[cormac]

Would anyone know any pubs in Dublin that are showing the Wales NZ match? I think it’s just on Amazon?

Fortunately WRU care only about milking the cash cow.

Still think we should have tried to play someone like Tonga first like Scotland did. There is difficulty getting game time in the URC and then there isn't so much room for rotation even on the AIs. I'd cap Healy for a start. For me he's further on the pathway than Casey, and has more potential.

I know the IRFU don't care about the world cup. But I do.

We did try to play someone, we should have been kicking off right about now v USA in Las Vegas.

[fourthirtythree]

Would anyone know any pubs in Dublin that are showing the Wales NZ match? I think it’s just on Amazon?

Fortunately WRU care only about milking the cash cow.

Still think we should have tried to play someone like Tonga first like Scotland did. There is difficulty getting game time in the URC and then there isn't so much room for rotation even on the AIs. I'd cap Healy for a start. For me he's further on the pathway than Casey, and has more potential.

I know the IRFU don't care about the world cup. But I do.

We did try to play someone, we should have been kicking off right about now v USA in Las Vegas.

That's a good point of course.

Really stupid idea.

[FLIP]

That's a good point of course.

Really stupid idea.

Well, when it was conceived the idea was everyone would be vaxxed by now and we'd all be able to travel no issues. If that was the case I would have jumped all over going to that game myself, and it would have been a good money maker for both parties.

Unfortunately between feckless governments and fuckwit people this whole ordeal has dragged on and made this idea really stupid in hindsight.

[ronk]

That's a good point of course.

Really stupid idea.

Well, when it was conceived the idea was everyone would be vaxxed by now and we'd all be able to travel no issues. If that was the case I would have jumped all over going to that game myself, and it would have been a good money maker for both parties.

Unfortunately between feckless governments and fuckwit people this whole ordeal has dragged on and made this idea really stupid in hindsight.

Or we could say it’s the Delta variant. It was known when the fixture was announced (still new though) but the key planning was earlier and it was only well afterwards that it had an impact in USA.

Take out the delta numbers and COVID looks very different worldwide right now. They followed the prevailing medical advice at the time and that was borne out by the fact that other matches are going ahead with fans. It was reasonable to think that the travel restrictions would have been eased by now. COVID numbers in America continued to drop for a month after the game was announced.

I’d certainly give the organisers a pass on the fact that travel restrictions were extended to Nov 1st and they narrowly missed the window. That was unforeseeable.

[fourthirtythree]

And yet full stadium matches went ahead in Scotland and Wales yesterday

It genuinely would not have occurred to me to try some stunt match abroad where you can control less. Uncertainty: it's a constant.