Ireland are massively reliant on what Leinster do.

[Oldschool]

"Ireland are massively reliant on what Leinster do."
That's the last line in one of Hugonaut's posts.

The significance of that statement is huge.
It's worthy of serious analysis and discussion.
Leinster is the goose that is laying the golden eggs.
What happens if the number of golden eggs is reduced?
Could both Ireland's and Leinster's future success be affected negatively.
Should Leinster and Ireland continue producing at current levels knowing that more players will have to go abroad but at least the pick of the crop stays in Ireland.
¿¿¿¿¿?????
I've know idea how I got those upside down ? ¿ btw but it's a topsy turvy world at the moment so the symbolism is real. (The last ¿ was a cut and paste btw)

[Fan with smartphone]

very good. Funny, as a total aside, joe Schmidt always put me in mind of frank Gorshin. I think it is that you might have yer language settings on Spanish or something there with the ¿?.

It’s not just the structure of the URC. Am I being overly dramatic to say the whole structure and future of the professional game is in play right now? How viable are cross border competitions? I’m not even thinking URC here, but world cups? Nations bid for that and make their money back on ticket sales. But those sales could bottom out if a variant hits. ¿Would you want to stand over the insurance for that? I wouldn’t. And not to go all FIFA, but I’ve been an advocate for biennial world cups. Now...I dunno about that anymore. This is perhaps a bad month to be coming to any definite conclusions.

Pat Lam was talking about the future and it was more about money distribution and squad building - they appear to be foolishly (in my opinion), but (given their assorted owners) predictably (again, in my opinion) headed for very unevenly remunerated squads. Still, the viability of the whole thing came up in that conversation.

Maybe in a months time we see that things are not as bad as feared, I dunno. One thing is fair to say - Ireland and as Hugo says: yes, particularly Leinster, are producing quality players. There are enough players to service more than the 4 teams that are competitive teams at the current standard in Europe. There may not be the market/money for that, but there are the players. It would seem to me that English and French teams are likely to try to put power plays together for our best players, then sell their respective leagues as the best in the world on the back of it. That seems the direction they are going. I don’t know how that works out/changes. It isn’t soccer as Nigel Owens was wont to say. And I don’t know really where we are going here - we are good as things are and basically, thanks to particularly the Leinster structures, have the rugby players to withstand any shenanigans. That’s been seen when there was an attempt to gerrymander the European cup. Scottish, Italian and welsh teams have suffered more than the Irish. The market and the money is our problem though if Covid mangles multi-nation leagues.

[ronk]

I think at this point we're talking about reducing the number of pro players in Ireland. This is reasonable with 2 club competitions reduced in scope but hasn't factored in that there may be another A competition filling the gap and the IRFU could explore expanding the international calendar. Also in the short term with Covid and injuries there's a need for bigger squads if not the gametime.

If we need to reduce squad size then we'll have a surplus of players. Other provinces will also need to reduce squad size but it makes sense that they may prefer some of our players to their own.

By the same token it might make sense for us to take a player or two if there's a strength mismatch in the other direction.

I also think it's important that it be done in a controlled way if it needs to happen. It shouldn't be an excuse for poaching and for signing players into a stockpile. It also has to be politically sensitive, if people are still grumbling about it 10 years later (some of the players will still be playing) then it might not have been all that successful. Torpedoing the other academies could have long term costs too.

[Ruckedtobits]

There continues to be the assumption that the Top14 will be the major importer of quality Irish players. Anybody who has studied the graduated conditions for Top14 Squads (contracts from 2020 till 2023) will easily recognise that is highly unlikely.

It would appear at present that among the current Top14 Squads, something like 35 non-French qualified players will cease to be on contract by the end of next season (2022-23). At least 50% of those players are high quality international players from NZ, South Sea Islands and Argentina who would be highly attractive to other Clubs. Either way, it doesn't look like there will be much room in the Top14 for a raft of Irish players any time soon.

If one listens to Baxter and Lam talking about Salary Caps and Squad sizes in the Premiership, you'd doubt whether there is much room there either.

All in all, I don't see much chance of a significant movement of Irish players in summer 2022.

Completely by chance (Covid in fact), CVC Partners may now be in a position to call the shots on all the major competitions (other than Top14) and with lower salary roles at play.

As Warren Buffett once proclaimed, the art of successful investment is buying high quality assets when the opportunity arises and then making those assets more valuable by good management. Maybe they'll be able to do that in the coming months when it seems possible, they may even get the opportunity to move the dates of the 6 Nations (the Holy grail in marketing terms) because of Covid postponements.

[dropkick]

What I think might happen with the leinster squad is the internationals will be kept obviously. That leaves less opportunity for everyone else. I can see the second stringers being the category of player who will be going. Those about average age or above and who are not international players. The likes of Ruddock, Josh Murphy, Adam Byrne, Conor O'Brien etc. I'm just using those particular players as examples.


There is less need for those now and so they won't be getting paid as much and will be more likely want to leave. That will leave gaps for the young players to fill in so player development might not suffer as much. You could say you're cutting out the middleman between youth and internationals.


Depends on position too of course. Scott Penny is young but he has plenty of traffic ahead of him and will be getting offers from other teams. I'd be surprised if Ulster and Connacht were not looking at him.

[dropkick]

There continues to be the assu ption that the Top14 will be the major importer of quality Irish players. Anybody who has studied the graduated conditions for Top14 Squads (contracts from 2020 till 2023) will easily recognise that is highly unlikely.

It would appear at present that among the current Top14 Squads, something like 35 non-French qualified players will cease to be on contract by the end of next season. At least 50% of those players are high quality international players from NZ, South Sea Islands and Argentina who would be highly attractive to other Clubs. Either way, it doesn't look like there will be much room I Top14 for a raft of Irish players any time soon.

If one listens to Baxter and Lam talking about Salary Caps and Squad sizes in the Premiership, you'd doubt whether ther is much room there either.

All in all, I don't see much chance of a significant movement of Irish players in summer 2022.

Completely by chance (Covid in fact), CCC Partners may not be in a position to call the shots on all the major competitions and with lower salary roles at play.

As Warren Buffett once proclaimed, the art of successful investment is buying high quality assets when the opportunity arises and then making those assets more valuable by good management

I think we'll see a few more retirements than usual at the end of this season.