Ireland Depth Chart - February 2023

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Ruckedtobits
Rob Kearney
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Ireland Depth Chart - February 2023

Post by Ruckedtobits »

AN INITIAL VERSION OF THIS ARTICLE WAS INADVERTANTLY POSTED DURING THE COURSE OF EDITING AND ALIGNMENT. IN PARTICULAR, PLAYER RANKINGS FROM 5-8 HAVE BEEN SUBSTANTIALLY AMENDED SINCE THE IKNITIAL POSTING

At last I get around to the pre Six-Nations update. It always is more complex than you remember and that is just in the tabular layout!

This assessment takes the Irish Depth Chart up to 1st February 2023 and takes into account performances from 1st Oct 2022 through to 31st January 2023. No player has been (intentionally) excluded through injury but John Ryan is still considered eligible for Irish selection within this process, despite his imminent departure to the NZ, en route to his contract with the Waitako Chiefs, as this writer considers that if Furlong was seriously injured Andy Farrell would move mountains to regain Ryan.
Obviously, these are the views of just one observer and there will be other views as to ranking or inclusion. I look forward to comments and if I have forgotten a particular player, I will attempt to rectify the matter. I do not however propose to alter rankings, based on others' opinions. Finally,
I will also correct the position with regard to players capped at full international level.

In making these assessments, there has often a tendancy to promote and demote players based on their performances in high calibre games e.g. European and Inter-provincial games. Broadly speaking, players tend not to get demoted for under-performance in URC games, which have become increasingly important to each Province. However, a player can jump a couple of rungs with an excellent display in an important game.

Once again, there are 8 "Teams" ranked, but the Depth Chart does not name any player more than once. Hence selections do not reflect the reality that all Coaches may prefer to move players positionally, rather than select the next player by ranking.

For the Provincially curious, the 120 players listed are distributed as follows:

Leinster: 38 Players; 31.6% of total
Munster: 30 Players; 25.0% of total
Ulster: 29 Players; 24.1% of total
Connacht: 23 Players. 19.2% of total

The distribution is a lot more even than many would anticipate, but reflective of the continued improvement in Connacht in particular. When one considers that all four Provinces continue their involvement in European competition, the overall standard continues to rise although we do not consider there are any players outside this 120 who may figure on an Irish World Cup Squad in 2023.We estimate that the 120 players listed here represent ab out 50% of all the Irish-qualified, professional players in the country.

Finally, although it was tempting, no analysis was undertaken as to the Provincial origins of the players.

Ireland XV Depth Chart - 31 January 2023
         Squad Alpha - A & B                   Squad Delta C & D 

15. H. Keenan         J O'Brien            S Daly           M Lowry 
14. M Hanson          J Larmour            R Balacoumbe     A Conway
13. G Ringrose        J Osborne*           J Hume           A Frisch*
12. R Henshaw         B Aki                S McCloskey      C Frawley*
11. J Lowe            J Stockdale          K Earls          J Porch* 
10. J Sexton          R Byrne              J Carbery        J Crowley
9.  JG Park           C Murray             C Casey          C Blade
8.  C Doris           G Coombes            J Conan          M Deegan
7.  J V dFlyer        W Connors            J Hodnett*       N Timoney
6.  P O'Mahony        R Baird              C Prendergast    R Ruddock
5.  Jas Ryan          I Henderson          R Molony *       T Ahern*
4.  T Beirne          J Klein              J McCarthy       E Edogbo*
3.  T Furlong         F Bealham            J Ryan           M Moore
2.  D Sheehan         R Kelleher           R Herring        T Stewart*
1.  A Porter          C Healy              D Kilcoyne       J Loughman 


* Uncapped
       Squad Epsilon E & F                Squad Gamma G & H        

15. M. Haley         P Campbell*         T O'Halloran   E McElroy*     
14. C. Nash          A Woottam*          A Byrne        A King*         
13. L Marshall       T Farrell*          S Moore*       T O'Brien*     
12. D Hawkshaw*      C Farrell           J Postletwaite* Tom Daly*           
11. R Russell*       R Lyttle*           C. Gilroy      A Sexton* 
10. H Byrne*         J Carty             J Flannery*    C Forde*   
9.  K Marmion        L McGrath           P Patterson*   N Doak*  
8.  J O'Donoghue     P Boyle*            D McCann*      J Culhane*
7.  S Penny*         A Kendellan*        C Oliver*      R Crothers*
6.  J O'Sullivan*    Josh Murphy         Jordi Murphy   H Sheridan*       
5.  N Murray*        D Murray*           C Izuchukwu*   E O'Connell*     
4   K Treadwell      F Wycherly*         A O'Connor*    B Deeny*        
3.  T O'Toole        R Salonoa*          J Aungier*     R McGuire*
2.  S Delahunt*b]    N Scannell*         D Barron*      J McKee*      
1.  Ed Byrne         P Dooley*           A Warwick*     E O'Sullivan*
  
* Uncapped
Last edited by Ruckedtobits on November 2nd, 2023, 6:27 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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suisse
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Re: Ireland Depth Chart - February 2023

Post by suisse »

Wild to think the Lions starting 8 is third choice for Ireland in that position.

Wouldn't write Conway off for a RWC slot.
backrower8
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Re: Ireland Depth Chart - February 2023

Post by backrower8 »

Thanks for the line-ups.

Agree for the most part. Once again it shows how we are badly exposed at half-back and prop. We are well stocked everywhere else.

Some observations:

- Cooney or Luke @ 9 for Team D
- Coombes is team C or D. If Deegan can make 66% of the yards Coombes does he is a better player (Team C, pushing for B) because of his all round skill-set
- I have yet to make my mind up on Hodnett, but I don't see him as being on another level to Penny
- Generous to Connors after 30 mins
- Ross Molony is ahead of Murray and Ahern!!
- Kleyn, McCarthy & Edogbo are all #5s to my mind, while Murray and Ahern are #4s. Henderson is also more of a #4 but could do both
- Loughman over Dooley
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ronk
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Re: Ireland Depth Chart - February 2023

Post by ronk »

suisse wrote: January 31st, 2023, 9:47 am Wild to think the Lions starting 8 is third choice for Ireland in that position.

Wouldn't write Conway off for a RWC slot.
Conan isn't 3rd choice though. He's competing to start for Ireland, but behind Doris.

Positional flexibility make these charts somewhat less useful.

Tom O'Toole has consistently been Ireland's 3rd choice tighthead. But he's not on the chart with 2 players who haven't been making Ireland squads.
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fourthirtythree
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Re: Ireland Depth Chart - February 2023

Post by fourthirtythree »

ronk wrote: January 31st, 2023, 11:26 am
suisse wrote: January 31st, 2023, 9:47 am Wild to think the Lions starting 8 is third choice for Ireland in that position.

Wouldn't write Conway off for a RWC slot.
Conan isn't 3rd choice though. He's competing to start for Ireland, but behind Doris.

Positional flexibility make these charts somewhat less useful.

Tom O'Toole has consistently been Ireland's 3rd choice tighthead. But he's not on the chart with 2 players who haven't been making Ireland squads.
One of whom is leaving these shores and won't be eligible and one who has a long term (season ending I believe) injury.
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Flash Gordon
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Re: Ireland Depth Chart - February 2023

Post by Flash Gordon »

Conan and Connors are definitely not 3rd tier. As someone else mentioned, Conway is not dead yet, he's a super player and he's still only 31. Some of those players obviously double up - Jimmy on the wing for example. Not sure about Jean Kleyn either....
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Re: Ireland Depth Chart - February 2023

Post by OTT »

Obviously the chart is extremely subjective to RTB’s but Joe McCarthy has been fast tracked and capped by Andy Farrell, he’s actually in the 6 Nations squad, Kleyn is getting a lot of hype because the Munster scrum did alright against Toulouse, we trounced Toulouse in a knockout game at the end of last season with Molony and Ryan in the second row. Kleyn is playing well fair dues but on all material evidence McCarthy is clearly ahead of him on Andy Farrell’s depth chart.
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Re: Ireland Depth Chart - February 2023

Post by OTT »

Double post
"Horrocks went one way, Taylor the other and I was left holding the bloody hyphen!"

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Re: Ireland Depth Chart - February 2023

Post by Ruckedtobits »

backrower8 wrote: January 31st, 2023, 10:01 am Thanks for the line-ups.

Agree for the most part. Once again it shows how we are badly exposed at half-back and prop. We are well stocked everywhere else.

Some observations:

- Cooney or Luke @ 9 for Team D
- Coombes is team C or D. If Deegan can make 66% of the yards Coombes does he is a better player (Team C, pushing for B) because of his all round skill-set
- I have yet to make my mind up on Hodnett, but I don't see him as being on another level to Penny
- Generous to Connors after 30 mins
- Ross Molony is ahead of Murray and Ahern!!
- Kleyn, McCarthy & Edogbo are all #5s to my mind, while Murray and Ahern are #4s. Henderson is also more of a #4 but could do both
- Loughman over Dooley
Loughman's ommision now corrected. Thanks
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Re: Ireland Depth Chart - February 2023

Post by StopTheLights »

I feel like Stewart Moore is a little hard done by there. Hard to know how Farrell and co view him, but it’s hard not to be impressed by him. Such a skillful, smart player. It’s not going to happen at this stage but for my money he’s exactly the kind of player you’d want heading to a World Cup, extreme positional versatility and always seems to have a positive effect on the game.
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Re: Ireland Depth Chart - February 2023

Post by ronk »

StopTheLights wrote: January 31st, 2023, 9:33 pm I feel like Stewart Moore is a little hard done by there. Hard to know how Farrell and co view him, but it’s hard not to be impressed by him. Such a skillful, smart player. It’s not going to happen at this stage but for my money he’s exactly the kind of player you’d want heading to a World Cup, extreme positional versatility and always seems to have a positive effect on the game.
It's a position with a lot of depth, like hooker, and also with highly secure incumbents. Time is on his side.
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Re: Ireland Depth Chart - February 2023

Post by ustix »

Heffernan at 2?
Nowhere to be seen...
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Re: Ireland Depth Chart - February 2023

Post by backrower8 »

Ruckedtobits wrote: January 31st, 2023, 6:09 pm
backrower8 wrote: January 31st, 2023, 10:01 am Thanks for the line-ups.

Agree for the most part. Once again it shows how we are badly exposed at half-back and prop. We are well stocked everywhere else.

Some observations:

- Cooney or Luke @ 9 for Team D
- Coombes is team C or D. If Deegan can make 66% of the yards Coombes does he is a better player (Team C, pushing for B) because of his all round skill-set
- I have yet to make my mind up on Hodnett, but I don't see him as being on another level to Penny
- Generous to Connors after 30 mins
- Ross Molony is ahead of Murray and Ahern!!
- Kleyn, McCarthy & Edogbo are all #5s to my mind, while Murray and Ahern are #4s. Henderson is also more of a #4 but could do both
- Loughman over Dooley
Loughman's ommision now corrected. Thanks
:clap: and I see that Ross Molony is now added to Team C

Thanks for the Full Monty to include 8 teams
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Re: Ireland Depth Chart - February 2023

Post by Experimental »

Very nice list, but I agree with people that Connors and Conway could easily be first choice, especially Conway, he's been brilliant for Ireland and wouldnt be a bit surprised if he takes that jersey back from Hansen before the WC
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Re: Ireland Depth Chart - February 2023

Post by ronk »

Experimental wrote: February 1st, 2023, 11:13 pm Very nice list, but I agree with people that Connors and Conway could easily be first choice, especially Conway, he's been brilliant for Ireland and wouldnt be a bit surprised if he takes that jersey back from Hansen before the WC
I'd be very surprised if Connors was ahead of the world player of the year.

Conway's a good player but I don't think he's played at a higher level than Hansen on form.
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Re: Ireland Depth Chart - February 2023

Post by coolbawn »

How about inserting Thornbury quite high up the depth chart ? Super player up to the moment he gets injured again.
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Re: Ireland Depth Chart - February 2023

Post by Experimental »

I dont think Hansens form has been as good this year as it was last year. For me even someone like Jordan Larmour has been playing better. Im pretty sure Connors has played every position in the back row, so it wouldnt just be Josh hed be competing with, and lets not forget Connors had that jersey before his injury, and it didnt really look like Josh was going to get a look back in. Josh fully took his chance, and hats off to him, outstanding, but Connors is back now, and hes looked very good from what ive seen so far. Josh would want to keep those standards high!
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Re: Ireland Depth Chart - February 2023

Post by ronk »

Experimental wrote: February 2nd, 2023, 11:09 pm I dont think Hansens form has been as good this year as it was last year. For me even someone like Jordan Larmour has been playing better. Im pretty sure Connors has played every position in the back row, so it wouldnt just be Josh hed be competing with, and lets not forget Connors had that jersey before his injury, and it didnt really look like Josh was going to get a look back in. Josh fully took his chance, and hats off to him, outstanding, but Connors is back now, and hes looked very good from what ive seen so far. Josh would want to keep those standards high!
I'm glad Connors is back and I hope he has a run of fitness. He'd have been glad to get SOB levels of gametime.

Connors got picked for a few games ahead of Josh but never really had an extended run of getting picked for the big games, even when he wasn't injured.

He was used a few times tactically, e.g. to man mark Bily Vunipola on his HC debut and he got the 2 rescheduled 6N games, but after that he got 1 start in the AIs. Next 6N he got starts against Italy and Scotland. Josh got Wales, France and England.

He hasn't been able to do a full game since.

Faz hasn't been shy to call up semi injured players and there's only 1 openside in his squad. Connors made a lot of tackles against Cardiff and its great to see him back, but it's a bit premature to expect big things straightaway.
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Re: Ireland RWC Training Squad - 29 May 2023

Post by Ruckedtobits »

Ruckedtobits wrote:
This assessment is prepared in the immediate aftermath of Munster's superb win against Stormers in Cape Town in the URC Grand Final. Coming in the slipstream of Leinster's calamitous last fortnight of the Season, it certainly provides an emotional lift to Irish fans and perhaps even nudges Andy Farrell to include more players in his World Cup Training Squad who don't wear blue for their Province.

Certainly some Munster players have put up their hands for inclusion during the past 6 weeks, but so also did some from Connacht and, to a lesser extent, Leinster. Alone of the Provinces, Ulster didn't provide the sort of platform that some on the fringes would have hoped, but Andy Farrell and his fellow Coaches have previously shown that they aren't blinkered when it comes to Squad selection.

Usually reliable media sources suggest that up to 45 players will be named in a Training Squad tomorrow. Accordingly, I am going to list a minimum of 3 players in each position, but may include four in some circumstances. However, each player is named in only one position.

Possible Ireland Training Squad - 29th May 2023

15. H. Keenan J O'Brien C Frawley*
14. M Hanson C Nash J Larmour
13. G Ringrose A Frisch* J Osborne*
12. R Henshaw B Aki S McCloskey
11. J Lowe J Porch* J Stockdale S Daly
10. J Sexton J Crowley R Byrne
9. JG Park C Murray C Casey C Blade
8. C Doris J Conan G Coombes
7. J V dFlyer J Hodnett* W Connors
6. P O'Mahony R Baird C Prendergast
5. Jas Ryan I Henderson N Murray*
4. T Beirne
J Kleyn J McCarthy
3. T Furlong
F Bealham J Ryan
2. D Sheehan R Kelleher R Herring T Stewart*
1. A Porter
C Healy J Loughman

* Uncapped
That's a total of 48 players and there are some notable exclusions, none of whom will be the cause of universal acclaim e.g. Haley, Lowry, Earls, Balacoumbe, Hume, Carbery, O'Toole, Treadwell, Molony, Timoney. There may also be players included that would not be everyone's choice, or who some may regard as superfluous. However, there are a couple of positions where more than the requisite number of players have given displays which warrant further consideration e.g. Blade, John Ryan, N Murray & Tom Stewart.

We'll soon know what Andy Farrell thinks, but I believe Ireland have never had a potentially stronger RWC Squad.
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Re: Ireland Depth Chart - February 2023

Post by Ruckedtobits »

Mods, I am more than happy to have these piece amalgamated with IRELAND RWC 2023 thread.

Didn't want to lose the alignment on the lists
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