Ireland Depth Chart - February 2023

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leinsterforever
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Re: Ireland RWC Training Squad - 29 May 2023

Post by leinsterforever »

Ruckedtobits wrote: May 29th, 2023, 6:08 pm
Ruckedtobits wrote:
This assessment is prepared in the immediate aftermath of Munster's superb win against Stormers in Cape Town in the URC Grand Final. Coming in the slipstream of Leinster's calamitous last fortnight of the Season, it certainly provides an emotional lift to Irish fans and perhaps even nudges Andy Farrell to include more players in his World Cup Training Squad who don't wear blue for their Province.

Certainly some Munster players have put up their hands for inclusion during the past 6 weeks, but so also did some from Connacht and, to a lesser extent, Leinster. Alone of the Provinces, Ulster didn't provide the sort of platform that some on the fringes would have hoped, but Andy Farrell and his fellow Coaches have previously shown that they aren't blinkered when it comes to Squad selection.

Usually reliable media sources suggest that up to 45 players will be named in a Training Squad tomorrow. Accordingly, I am going to list a minimum of 3 players in each position, but may include four in some circumstances. However, each player is named in only one position.

Possible Ireland Training Squad - 29th May 2023

15. H. Keenan J O'Brien C Frawley*
14. M Hanson C Nash J Larmour
13. G Ringrose A Frisch* J Osborne*
12. R Henshaw B Aki S McCloskey
11. J Lowe J Porch* J Stockdale S Daly
10. J Sexton J Crowley R Byrne
9. JG Park C Murray C Casey C Blade
8. C Doris J Conan G Coombes
7. J V dFlyer J Hodnett* W Connors
6. P O'Mahony R Baird C Prendergast
5. Jas Ryan I Henderson N Murray*
4. T Beirne
J Kleyn J McCarthy
3. T Furlong
F Bealham J Ryan
2. D Sheehan R Kelleher R Herring T Stewart*
1. A Porter
C Healy J Loughman

* Uncapped
That's a total of 48 players and there are some notable exclusions, none of whom will be the cause of universal acclaim e.g. Haley, Lowry, Earls, Balacoumbe, Hume, Carbery, O'Toole, Treadwell, Molony, Timoney. There may also be players included that would not be everyone's choice, or who some may regard as superfluous. However, there are a couple of positions where more than the requisite number of players have given displays which warrant further consideration e.g. Blade, John Ryan, N Murray & Tom Stewart.

We'll soon know what Andy Farrell thinks, but I believe Ireland have never had a potentially stronger RWC Squad.
Needs more props. Considering the final 33 could well have 6 props in it I'd imagine an extended panel would add an extra one for each side. Milne at loosehead and O'Toole at tighthead. Will they call up John Ryan to this - considering he might not be finished with the Chiefs till June 24? Might see Salanoa or Archer instead.

Porch is ineligible; he has caps for Australia 7s. That Journal.ie article some months ago talking about him playing for Ireland was misinformation.
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Re: Ireland RWC Training Squad - 29 May 2023

Post by Ruckedtobits »

leinsterforever wrote: May 29th, 2023, 8:56 pm
Ruckedtobits wrote: May 29th, 2023, 6:08 pm
Ruckedtobits wrote:
This assessment is prepared in the immediate aftermath of Munster's superb win against Stormers in Cape Town in the URC Grand Final. Coming in the slipstream of Leinster's calamitous last fortnight of the Season, it certainly provides an emotional lift to Irish fans and perhaps even nudges Andy Farrell to include more players in his World Cup Training Squad who don't wear blue for their Province.

Certainly some Munster players have put up their hands for inclusion during the past 6 weeks, but so also did some from Connacht and, to a lesser extent, Leinster. Alone of the Provinces, Ulster didn't provide the sort of platform that some on the fringes would have hoped, but Andy Farrell and his fellow Coaches have previously shown that they aren't blinkered when it comes to Squad selection.

Usually reliable media sources suggest that up to 45 players will be named in a Training Squad tomorrow. Accordingly, I am going to list a minimum of 3 players in each position, but may include four in some circumstances. However, each player is named in only one position.

Possible Ireland Training Squad - 29th May 2023

15. H. Keenan J O'Brien C Frawley*
14. M Hanson C Nash J Larmour
13. G Ringrose A Frisch* J Osborne*
12. R Henshaw B Aki S McCloskey
11. J Lowe J Porch* J Stockdale S Daly
10. J Sexton J Crowley R Byrne
9. JG Park C Murray C Casey C Blade
8. C Doris J Conan G Coombes
7. J V dFlyer J Hodnett* W Connors
6. P O'Mahony R Baird C Prendergast
5. Jas Ryan I Henderson N Murray*
4. T Beirne
J Kleyn J McCarthy
3. T Furlong
F Bealham J Ryan
2. D Sheehan R Kelleher R Herring T Stewart*
1. A Porter
C Healy J Loughman

* Uncapped
That's a total of 48 players and there are some notable exclusions, none of whom will be the cause of universal acclaim e.g. Haley, Lowry, Earls, Balacoumbe, Hume, Carbery, O'Toole, Treadwell, Molony, Timoney. There may also be players included that would not be everyone's choice, or who some may regard as superfluous. However, there are a couple of positions where more than the requisite number of players have given displays which warrant further consideration e.g. Blade, John Ryan, N Murray & Tom Stewart.

We'll soon know what Andy Farrell thinks, but I believe Ireland have never had a potentially stronger RWC Squad.
Needs more props. Considering the final 33 could well have 6 props in it I'd imagine an extended panel would add an extra one for each side. Milne at loosehead and O'Toole at tighthead. Will they call up John Ryan to this - considering he might not be finished with the Chiefs till June 24? Might see Salanoa or Archer instead.

Porch is ineligible; he has caps for Australia 7s. That Journal.ie article some months ago talking about him playing for Ireland was misinformation.
Thanks for info on Porch. His eligibility has been referenced a couple of times.

Re inclusion of others e.g. more Props, that would be totally logical but I was trying to stay within, or close to, the figure of 45 referenced a couple of times. Two more Props would enable a lot more scrum work in Camp.
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Flash Gordon
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Re: Ireland Depth Chart - February 2023

Post by Flash Gordon »

Ireland Training Squad
Forwards (22)

Ryan Baird (Leinster/Dublin University)
Finlay Bealham (Connacht/Buccaneers)
Tadhg Beirne (Munster/Lansdowne)
Jack Conan (Leinster/Old Belvedere)
Gavin Coombes (Munster/Young Munster)
Caelan Doris (Leinster/St Mary’s College)
Tadhg Furlong (Leinster/Clontarf)
Cian Healy (Leinster/Clontarf)
Iain Henderson (Ulster/Academy)
Rob Herring (Ulster/Ballynahinch)
Ronan Kelleher (Leinster/Lansdowne)
Dave Kilcoyne (Munster/UL Bohemians)
Joe McCarthy (Leinster/Dublin University)
Peter O’Mahony (Munster/Cork Constitution)
Tom O’Toole (Ulster/Ballynahinch)
Andrew Porter (Leinster/UCD)
Cian Prendergast (Connacht/Corinthians)
James Ryan (Leinster/UCD)
Dan Sheehan (Leinster/Lansdowne)
Tom Stewart (Ulster/Ballynahinch)*
Kieran Treadwell (Ulster/Ballymena)
Josh van der Flier (Leinster/UCD)

Backs (20)

Bundee Aki (Connacht/Galwegians)
Caolin Blade (Connacht/Galwegians)
Ross Byrne (Leinster/UCD)
Craig Casey (Munster/Shannon)
Jack Crowley (Munster/Cork Constitution)
Keith Earls (Munster/Young Munster)
Ciaran Frawley (Leinster/UCD)*
Jamison Gibson-Park (Leinster)
Mack Hansen (Connacht/Corinthians)
Robbie Henshaw (Leinster/Buccaneers)
Hugo Keenan (Leinster/UCD)
James Lowe (Leinster)
Stuart McCloskey (Ulster/Bangor)
Conor Murray (Munster/Garryowen)
Calvin Nash (Munster/Young Munster)*
Jimmy O’Brien (Leinster/Naas)
Jamie Osborne (Leinster/Naas)*
Garry Ringrose (Leinster/UCD)
Jonathan Sexton (Leinster/St Mary’s College)
Jacob Stockdale (Ulster/Lurgan)

*denotes uncapped player
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FtD
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Re: Ireland Depth Chart - February 2023

Post by FtD »

Few very surprising picks for me - Earls and Stockdale over Baloucoune and Larmour feels like an emotional selection. I don't understand Kieran Treadwell's continued involvement - I'd have Jean Kleyn instead of him.

How is David Kilcoyne still there? Jeremy Loughman very hard done by there.

Frawley and Osborne maybe a little lucky, though Osborne was electric prior to his injury.

I can't understand why we don't have another openside in a 42 man squad - had thought Hodnett had shown enough over the last few weeks to warrant a call up.

Seems a bit of a gamble only having three 10s and three 3s given Sexton & Furlong's injury issues too.
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Re: Ireland RWC Training Squad - 30 May 2023

Post by Ruckedtobits »

Ruckedtobits wrote:
This is the positional listing of Andy Farrell's Irish Training Squad for RWC 2023, outlined in their primary positions.

Ireland Training Squad - 30th May 2023

15. H. Keenan J O'Brien C Frawley*
14. M Hanson C Nash*
13. G Ringrose J Osborne*
12. R Henshaw B Aki S McCloskey
11. J Lowe J Stockdale K Earls
10. J Sexton J Crowley R Byrne
9. JG Park C Murray C Casey C Blade
8. C Doris J Conan G Coombes
7. J V dFlyer
6. P O'Mahony R Baird C Prendergast
5. Jas Ryan I Henderson K Treadwell
4. T Beirne J McCarthy
3. T Furlong F Bealham T O'Toole
2. D Sheehan R Kelleher R Herring T Stewart*
1. A Porter
C Healy D Kilcoyne

* Uncapped
leinsterforever
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Re: Ireland Depth Chart - February 2023

Post by leinsterforever »

Seems I was wrong about the number of props. Now I wonder is the plan to have only 5 in the final 33.
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Re: Ireland Depth Chart - February 2023

Post by The Doc »

leinsterforever wrote:Seems I was wrong about the number of props. Now I wonder is the plan to have only 5 in the final 33.
In theory both Healy and Porter can play two sides. Though it's been a while for Porter I think



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Re: Ireland Depth Chart - February 2023

Post by Colmodon »

The Doc wrote: May 30th, 2023, 9:33 pm
leinsterforever wrote:Seems I was wrong about the number of props. Now I wonder is the plan to have only 5 in the final 33.
In theory both Healy and Porter can play two sides. Though it's been a while for Porter I think



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Bealham is also ambi propstrous
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ronk
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Re: Ireland Depth Chart - February 2023

Post by ronk »

The Doc wrote: May 30th, 2023, 9:33 pm
leinsterforever wrote:Seems I was wrong about the number of props. Now I wonder is the plan to have only 5 in the final 33.
In theory both Healy and Porter can play two sides. Though it's been a while for Porter I think



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He went there for a short bit recently, think it was the Sharks game.
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Re: Ireland Depth Chart - February 2023

Post by Ruckedtobits »

Just had a look back as to what has changed since 1st February 2023. See the first entry on this thread

The answer is not a lot. All 15 selected in the first group got picked. From the second group, Larmour, Osborne & Stockdale missed out and were displaced by Earls & McCloskey. Poor Cian Healy suffered that horrendous late injury and Klein's declaration for S Africa opened the door for Joe McCarthy. Coombes was displaced by Conan during the 6N and Will Coonors regained fitness too late for consideration.

Herring, Kilcoyne & Loughman emerged from the rankings to take their places in the pecking order. However, Tom O'Toole is the closest thing to a bolter, bypassing John Ryan and Marty Moore in the Tight-head race. Apart from his emergence, only the disappearance of Joey Carbery and the emergence of Crowley was not anticipated 6 months ago.

Generally Farrell has had almost a full international season working with his World Cup Squad, which can only be considered a big plus.
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Re: Ireland Depth Chart - February 2023

Post by Ruckedtobits »

If there is one player, still playing and in the Irish system, who has not progressed to the degree anticipated and in a position where opportunity has arisen, it is Peter Dooley.

Five years ago in December 2018 and before the transition of Andrew Porter to LHP, Dooley was ranked 5th in the Irish Depth Chart behind Healy, McGrath, Kilcoyne & Byrne. Three Provincial team-mates ahead of him, one of whom was in the process of moving to Ulster and has subsequently retired from the game injured.

Dooley was an excellent Squad member in Leinster. A very good footballer, excellent tackler and technically good scrummager, most of the coaching staff were just waiting on him to develop a greater appetite and hardness. The Birr man is 6'0" and 18.5 St, highly mobile with excellent hands, Dooley has been playing Provincial rugby since 2014 and was in the Irish Squad in June 2021. But, for unknown reasons, his face, or skill-set, or ambition, just didn't fit.

Last Season he played for Connacht and figured regularly in their match day Squad. He hasn't quite overtaken Buckley in his new Province but is acknowledged by all teammates as a great addition to Connacht.

His name and face came to mind yesterday as the news and impact of Healy's injury became clear. Its just a pity that Peter Dooley's career hasn't progressed with the same drive that inhabits Cian Healy's psyche.
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Re: Ireland Depth Chart - February 2023

Post by king »

RTB it must be nearly time for an update
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Re: Ireland Depth Chart - February 2023

Post by Ruckedtobits »

king wrote: December 30th, 2023, 12:45 pm RTB it must be nearly time for an update
In the works, immediately post the last two Interpros. Rankings for 8 teams with positional commentary.
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Re: Ireland Depth Chart - Positional Commentary - January 2024

Post by Ruckedtobits »

Positional Commentary

BACK THREE
The full back position is dominated by Hugo Keenan who is widely accepted as among the three best in the world in his position. The fact that he has remained largely uninjured since he was first selected for Ireland has meant that few alternatives have been seen at international level. Jimmy O'Brien, prior to his just announced neck injury, was the automatic candidate in the number two position and had shown in his displays at full-back or on the wing for Leinster and Ireland that he is an adequate replacement in the No 15 jersey. Shane Daly has performed well for Munster in this role, notably in the absence of Haley and before the advent of Zebo, to much media acclaim. Daly he gets the third ramking ahead of Stewart Moore who has had occasional selections for Ulster in the position, albeit he is listed as a centre in the Province Squad. Moore is a particularly talented counter-attacker and it would be no surprise if Andy Farrell selected him, if Keenan was unavailable.

When we move beyond those four, Mike Lowry always comes in for mention, but I'm uncertain whether he would be considered a candidate for 6N selection, despite his bravery under the high ball. Will Addison has had three starts in recent weeks which have served to remind everybody in Ulster how much injury has robbed from his career.

However, the unexpected performer for me during the term just completed has been Simon Zebo and perhaps Jackman's seemingly throwaway remark about Zebo being close to an Irish Squad selection might not be impossible. Certainly Andy Farrell will not want to see Hugo Keenan suffer even the slightest injury in the forthcoming European contests before the 6 Nations starts in Marseilles.

WINGS
At the time of writing James Lowe has yet to make his seasonal debut post RWC. However, in combination with Mack Hansen, there is no doubt that they were the universal first choice in the 11 and 14 jerseys. In combination with Keenan, they provide Ireland with a very clever back three in both defence and attack and, when available, they are unchallenged in their positions.

However, the news that Hanson is virtually certain to miss all of the 6N Tournament having had surgery on his shoulder injury is a big blow for both Hansen and Ireland. One of the immediate beneficiaries could be Tommy O'Brien's whose return from a long injury break provided clear evidence of his abilities and if he returns to that standard in the forthcoming European fixtures, he could be be a genuine contender for inclusion in an internationla Squad in the coming months. Jordon Larmour and Robert Baloucoune have shown glimpses of the form that took both of them to international caps previously. However, neither has proved consistent, or as devastating in finishing the opportunities, which have come their way on the right wing. Selection between Larmour & Tommy O'Brien might be a long discussion in Leinster.

In the left wing position, the contenders have been queueing up and in particular Calvin Nash and Jacob Stockdale have both shown excellent form, although Stockdale in particular has yet to return to the absolute heights of his finishing skills as demonstrated during that 2018 debut season. Byron Ralston, a new signing for Connacht, has come to prominance quickly and he certainly appears to have the skill-set which could win him a Green jersey if the opportunity was presented.

However, the immediate reality is that Ireland's left wing versus France in Marseilles will face probably the most in-form attacker Damian Penaud in World rugby at present. Farrell will certainly hope that Lowe is 100% fit and tuned in for that contest although Stockdale is coming up on the rails.

As for the other contenders Kilgallen is very unfortunate to pick up a serious injury whilst McElroy & Aaron Sexton need more game time to make a serious bid for higher honours. O'Brien has proved an excellent signing for Munster from Exeter and just needs a yard more acceleration to progress further.

CENTRES
RWC 2023 presented the very clearest evidence that Ireland has a number of high-quality options in both centre positions. The two first choice contenders are probably Garry Ringrose and Bundee Aki. There is no doubt about the primacy of Aki who had a superb Tournament and fully deserved his nomination as one of the Players of the Competition. Ringrose was only slightly behind in his displays, but his form since returning has been decidedly mixed. Stuart McCloskey made an excellent comtribution to Ireland's RWC Squad and he continues to be the cornerstone of all that works well for Ulster.

However, undoubtedly the new star on the Irish Provincial scene in a No 12 jersey has been the uncapped Cathal Forde. In the absence of Bundee, but alongside Tom Farrell in Connacht, Forde has shown all the skills required by an inside centre in both attack and defence and, prior to his most unfortunate injury he certainly had offered the Irish Management good reasons to include him in the first large Squad gathering towards the end of January.

Robbie Henshaw is the fourth centre who has been an almost automatic selection in recent Irish Squads. However, he continues to have injury concerns on a regular basis and these could limit his availability to the Irish cause. Over the past three months, the players who have put their hands up most consistently as contenders for the No 13 shirt are Frisch, Farrell and Hume. The inclusion of any one of them in an Irish Squad would not be a surprise.

Of the young guns, Postletwaite & Hawkshaw have impressed again this season but both suffer from lack of opportunity by selection. The new format, truncated URC may suit the broadcasters but it's leaving many young players too few opportunities to impress the boss and push past the more experienced faces.

Tom Daly & Liam Turner are two more good prospects afflicted by this complaint as, in particular, is Connacht's Shane Bolton who looks very impressive going forward. Finally, Ben Brownlee of the recent Grand Slam Under 20's in 2023, has looked very good physically in a couple of early season runs for Leinster. He has a lot of 'Robbie Henshaw' about him and that's a very good reference to have on a CV at his age.

OUT-HALVES
Certainly for the Leinster fans, selection and ranking in this position has divided the flock. The barometer has risen and fallen during the past three months and, no doubt, there will be more movement before we get through a 6 Nations campaign. All of the factors that I listed at the outset have been relevant in my rankings and my only certainty at this time, is that my preferences will almost certainly change again before the 6 Nations finishes and probably again before season end.

However, as at the end of the 2023 calendar my ranking shows Jack Crowley clearly on top of the pile. Relataively inexperienced at the end of last Season in which he navigated his team through the three knock-out fixtures to win the URC Championship, he has certainly acquired invaluable minutes this autumn in developing his team management acumen. He has done so outside of excellent service from Casey and Murray and inside the talents and temprements of Frisch & Nankivill.

After that it becomes more difficult. I've ranked the four Leinster contenders Frawley 2nd, Ross Byrne 3rd, Harry Byrne 4th and Sam Prendergast 5th. But that's just selection today. If selection was at the end of January and all the contenders were back in the frame, I'd possibly put Ross back in second place (because I know I could trust him not to do anything daft) and elevate Sam up to third, because I want to find out will he survive the pressure at a higher level. Either way, Leinster are in a very fortunate position and next season may see some changes in the hierarcy.

The announcement of Joey Carbery's departure to pastures new is not really a surprise but still a disappointment. The promise and, at times, excellence he has shown at out-half is a rare gift but, through both injury & the variety of coaches he has had, he hasn't been able to produce an upward consistency in his performances over the past 6 years. As Billy Burns has shown this season, the performances are in there somewhere, it's just a question of producing them when it matters. Burns certainly produced the goods against Leinster and maybe that performance will re-ignite a career that hasn't made much progress in the past three seasons.

Jake Flannery has shown that taking the opportunity up north was the right move, even before Healy moved to Scotland. Flannery is developing well and should get adequate game time with excellent service inside and talented mid-fielders outside.

SCRUM - HALF
Ireland in the professional era has rarely been as well served at scrum-half as at present. New Irish citizen, Jamison Gibson Park gave a world class display at RWC and has continued that form on his return to Leinster. Conor Murray continues to prove why he was Ireland's number one No 9 for so long and Craig Casey has tempered his instincts carefully and has largely been prepared to serve his team's interests by giving Jack Crowley first option on almost every ball.

Between Murray and Casey, I have inserted Caolin Blade as I consider that it was his passing and breaking skills which gave Connacht such a strong start to their season. The more I watch Casey the more convinced I am that he chooses the wrong times to make breaks and he should focus his energies on using his pace to get to breakdowns quicker and get into positions, in-field from his wingers, to pick up inside passes.

For me, Cooney is well ahead of Doak up north and even looks like a possible Irish Squad player if Murray was unavailable. There's no doubt that he is probably the Irish player 'whose face just doesn't fit' (and hasn't done for a number of years). A strong rumour has been around for a while that this was a J10 opinion, rather than particular Coaches. Certainly his form and place kicking would not weaken any Irish Squad. Doak needs to work on getting to breakdowns quicker as he has an excellent rugby brain, but he must be present when the ball is available in order to show his value at the highest levels.

Luke McGrath's ranking was never more apparent than during his lengthy injury over the past months. He remains a top-class scrum-half with a weak passing game. Prior to his injury, his ream mate Foley showed that he is progressing well and hopefully he'll get sufficient game time in the coming months to demonstrate why he is worthy of selection.
A very strong collection of scrum-halves and others coming through also.

FRONT-ROW FORWARDS
Let's get the question of Hookers dealt with quickly. Sheehan, Kelleher & Herring rank up near the top of world hookers and Ireland are very lucky to have them. Tom Stewart is also the real deal and as his matures and his scrum work becomes more powerful, he will become a top-class option in the middle of the front-row.

However, the absence of real quality at both Loose Head and Tight-head Prop must be a real worry for all of the Irish coaching team. Andrew Porter and Tagdh Furlong have probably been live contenders for the top five in the world in their respective positions. Furlong has fallen from that lofty status in the past 18 months, but he should have another RWC in his locker, if he has the appetite for the work required to stay at the top.

Outside of those two, we struggle, and there is nobody on the immediate horizon who looks likely to emerge as a genuine replacement on either side of the scrum, at least not to the level of the place-holders. At LHP, I've ranked Healy, Loughman and Dooley. On the TH position, I've ranked Bealham, O'Toole and Moore. Somewhat ironically, I feel that we may better survive on the tight-head side if Furlong was missing as Bealham and O'Toole have had some valuable experience. However, Cian Healy now maxes out at about 35 minutes & Loughman is a long way below the standard of Porter. Peter Dooley remains for me an enigma who might yet prosper in Connacht. From close scrutiny, I believe that no opponent completely subdues him but he needs to develop a much harder shell to optimise his ability.

Aungier, Wilson & Jager will probably be in close competition to be the next reserve THP. Wilson has impressed with his general game and has the physique to progress to the highest level. With McFarland as his coach, he may be favourite to make the most progress in the shortest period. Aungier has come on in leaps and bounds as a scrummager and certainly the Connacht management don't have any concerns about exposing him to hard opponents. With Bealham on National duty, he'll have ample opportunity in the coming months.

Jager is the enigma. He's had huge opportunities in NZ with the most successful franchise ever. Yes, he's been selected in Squads with regularity but, for those who have followed his career, he hasn't gravitated to the top of the pile. Conversely, John Ryan, in his short tenure with the Waitako Chiefs, did all and more than his Coaches expected and was a first choice THP with his table-topping Super Rugby finalists.

SECOND-ROW
In a period of real development and change since the beginning of August, Joe McCarthy and Edwin Edogbo have emerged as genuine hard-nosed young tight-head second rows who are capable of supporting the three long-term encumbants James Ryan, Iain Henderson & Tadgh Beirne. Having declined to avail of the services of Jean Kleyn but watched him arrive back in Ireland with a World Cup winners medal, Andy Farrell and Paul O'Connell will be delighted with the emergence of MacCarthy and the rapid development of Edogbo.

The real misfortune of the past three months was Edogbo's serious leg injury which may deprive him of the remainder of the Season. At least, he has plenty of good Video highlights as to what his coaches want him to continue to do when he returns to play.

Niall Murray continues to impress at Connacht, particularly on opposition ball, but, at present, lacks the musclature to be an international contender, a comment that can also be made about Treadwell. Joe Joyce has been listed because of his unique power which has certainly been useful to the men from the West in the opening weeks of the season. However, I would be very surprised if he is considered a real international prospect.

The names in the teams from 5-8 are largely those of the next generation, with the exception of Ross Molony. For all of these players, with the possible exception of Dara Murray, the big challenge will be getting game time and opportunity. Injuries & international Squad selections may provide the best chances for advancement.

BACK-ROW
Perhaps the most lauded element of the Irish team by foreign media and fans alike was the depth of our back-row. Peter O'Mahony, Josh Van der Flyer & Caelin Doris were undoubtedly among the most consistent and hard-working back-rows in the competition and all three deserved all the accolades that came their way. When you add in the impact that Conan and Baird made in their cameo appearances, it is self-evident that Ireland has deep stocks in each of the back-row positions.

Two open-sides have made a big impression in the new term Will Connors and John Hodnett have had big games for their respective Provinces and the displacement of Josh Van der Flyer by Connors for the European re-match against La Rochelle was as big a surprise as the quality of Connors' performance.. However, perhaps the most noteworthy arrival into the Irish back-row landscape has been previous second-row, 6'9" Tomas Aherne whose recent displays wearing the No 6 jersey for Munster mark him as a viable contender to inherit the Munster and Ireland shirts with the same number from his clubmate the venerable Peter O'Mahony.

With the arrival of Jacques Nienabar in Leinster, Leo Cullen's selection of Ryan Baird in the Blue No 6 jersey possibly augers some serious contests in the coming months and years between these two athletic freaks. Ulster's Dave McCann, the Connacht duo Oliver & Prendergast and Munster No 8 Coombes have all been a little overshadowed in this back-row competition, but all have shown their quality at different times. Max Deegan and Rhys Ruddock are two who have suffered demotion in this area as the competitive stakes have risen

Aside from the RWC Squad, who deserve universal praise for their efforts, the players who have performed above expectations over the past three months certainly extent the options for Andy Farrell and his fellow coaches coming into another international season. Those who have advanced most are: 15. Moore, 14. Tommy O'Brien., 13. Frisch, 12. Forde, 11. Ralston, 10. Frawley, 9. Blade; 1. Dooley, 2. Stewart, 3. O'Toole, 4. McCarthy, 5. Edogbo, 6. Ahern, 7. Hodnett, 8. McCann.

A few of this 'Squad' have already picked up injuries which will exclude them from consideration. But the collection is an excellent example of just how quickly the landscape changes in a successful rugby environment.
Ruckedtobits
Rob Kearney
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Joined: April 10th, 2011, 10:23 am

Re: Ireland Depth Chart - Positional Commentary - January 2024

Post by Ruckedtobits »

Positional Commentary

BACK THREE
The full back position is dominated by Hugo Keenan who is widely accepted as among the three best in the world in his position. The fact that he has remained largely uninjured since he was first selected for Ireland has meant that few alternatives have been seen at international level. Jimmy O'Brien, prior to his just announced neck injury, was the automatic candidate in the number two position and had shown in his displays at full-back or on the wing for Leinster and Ireland that he is an adequate replacement in the No 15 jersey. Shane Daly has performed well for Munster in this role, notably in the absence of Haley and before the advent of Zebo, to much media acclaim. Daly however gets the third ramking ahead of Stewart Moore who has had occasional selections for Ulster in the position, albeit he is listed as a centre in the Province Squad. Moore is a particularly talented counter-attacker and it would be no surprise if Andy Farrell selected him, if Keenan was unavailable.

When we move beyond those four, Mike Lowry always comes in for mention, but I'm uncertain whether he would be considered a candidate for 6N selection, despite his bravery under the high ball. Will Addison has had three starts in recent weeks which have served to remind everybody in Ulster how much injury has robbed from his career.

However, the unexpected performer for me during the term just completed has been Simon Zebo and perhaps Jackman's seemingly throwaway remark about Zebo being close to an Irish Squad selection might not be impossible. Certainly Andy Farrell will not want to see Hugo Keenan suffer even the slightest injury in the forthcoming European contests before the 6 Nations starts in Marseilles.

WINGS
At the time of writing James Lowe has yet to make his seasonal debut post RWC. However, in combination with Mack Hansen, there is no doubt that they were the universal first choice in the 11 and 14 jerseys. In combination with Keenan, they provide Ireland with a very clever back three in both defence and attack and, when available, they are unchallenged in their positions.

However, the news that Hanson is virtually certain to miss all of the 6N Tournament having had surgery on his shoulder injury is a big blow for both Hansen and Ireland. One of the immediate beneficiaries could be Tommy O'Brien's whose return from a long injury break provided clear evidence of his abilities and if he returns to that standard in the forthcoming European fixtures, he could be be a genuine contender for inclusion in an internationla Squad in the coming months. Jordon Larmour and Robert Baloucoune have shown glimpses of the form that took both of them to international caps previously. However, neither has proved consistent, or as devastating in finishing the opportunities, which have come their way on the right wing. Selection between Larmour & Tommy O'Brien might be a long discussion in Leinster.

In the left wing position, the contenders have been queueing up and in particular Calvin Nash and Jacob Stockdale have both shown excellent form, although Stockdale in particular has yet to return to the absolute heights of his finishing skills as demonstrated during that 2018 debut season. Byron Ralston, a new signing for Connacht, has come to prominance quickly and he certainly appears to have the skill-set which could win him a Green jersey if the opportunity was presented.

However, the immediate reality is that Ireland's left wing versus France in Marseilles will face probably the most in-form attacker Damian Penaud in World rugby at present. Farrell will certainly hope that Lowe is 100% fit and tuned in for that contest although Stockdale is coming up on the rails.

As for the other contenders Kilgallen is very unfortunate to pick up a serious injury whilst McElroy & Aaron Sexton need more game time to make a serious bid for higher honours. O'Brien has proved an excellent signing for Munster from Exeter and just needs a yard more acceleration to progress further.

CENTRES
RWC 2023 presented the very clearest evidence that Ireland has a number of high-quality options in both centre positions. The two first choice contenders are probably Garry Ringrose and Bundee Aki. There is no doubt about the primacy of Aki who had a superb Tournament and fully deserved his nomination as one of the Players of the Competition. Ringrose was only slightly behind in his displays, but his form since returning has been decidedly mixed. Stuart McCloskey made an excellent comtribution to Ireland's RWC Squad and he continues to be the cornerstone of all that works well for Ulster.

However, undoubtedly the new star on the Irish Provincial scene in a No 12 jersey has been the uncapped Cathal Forde. In the absence of Bundee, but alongside Tom Farrell in Connacht, Forde has shown all the skills required by an inside centre in both attack and defence and, prior to his most unfortunate injury he certainly had offered the Irish Management good reasons to include him in the first large Squad gathering towards the end of January.

Robbie Henshaw is the fourth centre who has been an almost automatic selection in recent Irish Squads. However, he continues to have injury concerns on a regular basis and these could limit his availability to the Irish cause. Over the past three months, the players who have put their hands up most consistently as contenders for the No 13 shirt are Frisch, Farrell and Hume. The inclusion of any one of them in an Irish Squad would not be a surprise.

Of the young guns, Postletwaite & Hawkshaw have impressed again this season but both suffer from lack of opportunity by selection. The new format, truncated URC may suit the broadcasters but it's leaving many young players too few opportunities to impress the boss and push past the more experienced faces.

Tom Daly & Liam Turner are two more good prospects afflicted by this complaint as, in particular, is Connacht's Shane Bolton who looks very impressive going forward. Finally, Ben Brownlee of the recent Grand Slam Under 20's in 2023, has looked very good physically in a couple of early season runs for Leinster. He has a lot of 'Robbie Henshaw' about him and that's a very good reference to have on a CV at his age.

OUT-HALVES
Certainly for the Leinster fans, selection and ranking in this position has divided the flock. The barometer has risen and fallen during the past three months and, no doubt, there will be more movement before we get through a 6 Nations campaign. All of the factors that I listed at the outset have been relevant in my rankings and my only certainty at this time, is that my preferences will almost certainly change again before the 6 Nations finishes and probably again before season end.

However, as at the end of the 2023 calendar my ranking shows Jack Crowley clearly on top of the pile. Relataively inexperienced at the end of last Season in which he navigated his team through the three knock-out fixtures to win the URC Championship, he has certainly acquired invaluable minutes this autumn in developing his team management acumen. He has done so outside of excellent service from Casey and Murray and inside the talents and temprements of Frisch & Nankivill.

After that it becomes more difficult. I've ranked the four Leinster contenders Frawley 2nd, Ross Byrne 3rd, Harry Byrne 4th and Sam Prendergast 5th. But that's just selection today. If selection was at the end of January and all the contenders were back in the frame, I'd possibly put Ross back in second place (because I know I could trust him not to do anything daft) and elevate Sam up to third, because I want to find out will he survive the pressure at a higher level. Either way, Leinster are in a very fortunate position and next season may see some changes in the hierarcy.

The announcement of Joey Carbery's departure to pastures new is not really a surprise but still a disappointment. The promise and, at times, excellence he has shown at out-half is a rare gift but, through both injury & the variety of coaches he has had, he hasn't been able to produce an upward consistency in his performances over the past 6 years. As Billy Burns has shown this season, the performances are in there somewhere, it's just a question of producing them when it matters. Burns certainly produced the goods against Leinster and maybe that performance will re-ignite a career that hasn't made much progress in the past three seasons.

Jake Flannery has shown that taking the opportunity up north was the right move, even before Healy moved to Scotland. Flannery is developing well and should get adequate game time with excellent service inside and talented mid-fielders outside.

SCRUM - HALF
Ireland in the professional era has rarely been as well served at scrum-half as at present. New Irish citizen, Jamison Gibson Park gave a world class display at RWC and has continued that form on his return to Leinster. Conor Murray continues to prove why he was Ireland's number one No 9 for so long and Craig Casey has tempered his instincts carefully and has largely been prepared to serve his team's interests by giving Jack Crowley first option on almost every ball.

Between Murray and Casey, I have inserted Caolin Blade as I consider that it was his passing and breaking skills which gave Connacht such a strong start to their season. The more I watch Casey the more convinced I am that he chooses the wrong times to make breaks and he should focus his energies on using his pace to get to breakdowns quicker and get into positions, in-field from his wingers, to pick up inside passes.

For me, Cooney is well ahead of Doak up north and even looks like a possible Irish Squad player if Murray was unavailable. There's no doubt that he is probably the Irish player 'whose face just doesn't fit' (and hasn't done for a number of years). A strong rumour has been around for a while that this was a J10 opinion, rather than particular Coaches. Certainly his form and place kicking would not weaken any Irish Squad. Doak needs to work on getting to breakdowns quicker as he has an excellent rugby brain, but he must be present when the ball is available in order to show his value at the highest levels.

Luke McGrath's ranking was never more apparent than during his lengthy injury over the past months. He remains a top-class scrum-half with a weak passing game. Prior to his injury, his ream mate Foley showed that he is progressing well and hopefully he'll get sufficient game time in the coming months to demonstrate why he is worthy of selection.
A very strong collection of scrum-halves and others coming through also.

FRONT-ROW FORWARDS
Let's get the question of Hookers dealt with quickly. Sheehan, Kelleher & Herring rank up near the top of world hookers and Ireland are very lucky to have them. Tom Stewart is also the real deal and as his matures and his scrum work becomes more powerful, he will become a top-class option in the middle of the front-row.

However, the absence of real quality at both Loose Head and Tight-head Prop must be a real worry for all of the Irish coaching team. Andrew Porter and Tagdh Furlong have probably been live contenders for the top five in the world in their respective positions. Furlong has fallen from that lofty status in the past 18 months, but he should have another RWC in his locker, if he has the appetite for the work required to stay at the top.

Outside of those two, we struggle, and there is nobody on the immediate horizon who looks likely to emerge as a genuine replacement on either side of the scrum, at least not to the level of the place-holders. At LHP, I've ranked Healy, Loughman and Dooley. On the TH position, I've ranked Bealham, O'Toole and Moore. Somewhat ironically, I feel that we may better survive on the tight-head side if Furlong was missing as Bealham and O'Toole have had some valuable experience. However, Cian Healy now maxes out at about 35 minutes & Loughman is a long way below the standard of Porter. Peter Dooley remains for me an enigma who might yet prosper in Connacht. From close scrutiny, I believe that no opponent completely subdues him but he needs to develop a much harder shell to optimise his ability.

Aungier, Wilson & Jager will probably be in close competition to be the next reserve THP. Wilson has impressed with his general game and has the physique to progress to the highest level. With McFarland as his coach, he may be favourite to make the most progress in the shortest period. Aungier has come on in leaps and bounds as a scrummager and certainly the Connacht management don't have any concerns about exposing him to hard opponents. With Bealham on National duty, he'll have ample opportunity in the coming months.

Jager is the enigma. He's had huge opportunities in NZ with the most successful franchise ever. Yes, he's been selected in Squads with regularity but, for those who have followed his career, he hasn't gravitated to the top of the pile. Conversely, John Ryan, in his short tenure with the Waitako Chiefs, did all and more than his Coaches expected and was a first choice THP with his table-topping Super Rugby finalists.

SECOND-ROW
In a period of real development and change since the beginning of August, Joe McCarthy and Edwin Edogbo have emerged as genuine hard-nosed young tight-head second rows who are capable of supporting the three long-term encumbants James Ryan, Iain Henderson & Tadgh Beirne. Having declined to avail of the services of Jean Kleyn but watched him arrive back in Ireland with a World Cup winners medal, Andy Farrell and Paul O'Connell will be delighted with the emergence of MacCarthy and the rapid development of Edogbo.

The real misfortune of the past three months was Edogbo's serious leg injury which may deprive him of the remainder of the Season. At least, he has plenty of good Video highlights as to what his coaches want him to continue to do when he returns to play.

Niall Murray continues to impress at Connacht, particularly on opposition ball, but, at present, lacks the musclature to be an international contender, a comment that can also be made about Treadwell. Joe Joyce has been listed because of his unique power which has certainly been useful to the men from the West in the opening weeks of the season. However, I would be very surprised if he is considered a real international prospect.

The names in the teams from 5-8 are largely those of the next generation, with the exception of Ross Molony. For all of these players, with the possible exception of Dara Murray, the big challenge will be getting game time and opportunity. Injuries & international Squad selections may provide the best chances for advancement.

BACK-ROW
Perhaps the most lauded element of the Irish team by foreign media and fans alike was the depth of our back-row. Peter O'Mahony, Josh Van der Flyer & Caelin Doris were undoubtedly among the most consistent and hard-working back-rows in the competition and all three deserved all the accolades that came their way. When you add in the impact that Conan and Baird made in their cameo appearances, it is self-evident that Ireland has deep stocks in each of the back-row positions.

Two open-sides have made a big impression in the new term Will Connors and John Hodnett have had big games for their respective Provinces and the displacement of Josh Van der Flyer by Connors for the European re-match against La Rochelle was as big a surprise as the quality of Connors' performance.. However, perhaps the most noteworthy arrival into the Irish back-row landscape has been previous second-row, 6'9" Tomas Aherne whose recent displays wearing the No 6 jersey for Munster mark him as a viable contender to inherit the Munster and Ireland shirts with the same number from his clubmate the venerable Peter O'Mahony.

With the arrival of Jacques Nienabar in Leinster, Leo Cullen's selection of Ryan Baird in the Blue No 6 jersey possibly augers some serious contests in the coming months and years between these two athletic freaks. Ulster's Dave McCann, the Connacht duo Oliver & Prendergast and Munster No 8 Coombes have all been a little overshadowed in this back-row competition, but all have shown their quality at different times. Max Deegan and Rhys Ruddock are two who have suffered demotion in this area as the competitive stakes have risen

Aside from the RWC Squad, who deserve universal praise for their efforts, the players who have performed above expectations over the past three months certainly extent the options for Andy Farrell and his fellow coaches coming into another international season. Those who have advanced most are: 15. Moore, 14. Tommy O'Brien., 13. Frisch, 12. Forde, 11. Ralston, 10. Frawley, 9. Blade; 1. Dooley, 2. Stewart, 3. O'Toole, 4. McCarthy, 5. Edogbo, 6. Ahern, 7. Hodnett, 8. McCann.

A few of this 'Squad' have already picked up injuries which will exclude them from consideration. But the collection is an excellent example of just how quickly the landscape changes in a successful rugby environment.
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