Aviva Premiership: something exciting happens

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neill_m
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Re: Aviva Premiership: something exciting happens

Post by neill_m »

Ruckedtobits wrote: June 19th, 2022, 5:05 pm England 21 - Barbarians 52 with Skelton (Barbarians) dismissed on 36th minute. Clearly England minus Sarries & Leicester is not as dominant as Jones predicted. Couldn't watch it but match reports say Ba-Bas pack devoured England, even with Curry & Underwood in their back-row.
Was on Amazon Prime, Barbarians destroyed them in 2nd half as you say with a player less. George Kruis back heeled a conversion in his last professional game and scored 3 conversions.
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Dave Cahill
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Re: Aviva Premiership: something exciting happens

Post by Dave Cahill »

He probably won't get one, but Skelton deserves a very lengthy ban for his deliberate act of foul play.
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riocard911
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Re: Aviva Premiership: something exciting happens

Post by riocard911 »

Dave Cahill wrote: June 19th, 2022, 5:29 pm He probably won't get one, but Skelton deserves a very lengthy ban for his deliberate act of foul play.
Looked bad alright. The guy was out cold. Skelton had to hold him up otherwise he'd have keeled straight over.
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Re: Aviva Premiership: something exciting happens

Post by FLIP »

Rumours abound that Wasps are going to declare a Company Voluntary Arrangement with their creditors for the £35m debt they got into to buy the Coventry Building Society Arena (previously the Ricoh)
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Re: Aviva Premiership: something exciting happens

Post by The Doc »

FLIP wrote:Rumours abound that Wasps are going to declare a Company Voluntary Arrangement with their creditors for the £35m debt they got into to buy the Coventry Building Society Arena (previously the Ricoh)
If I recall some of that was sold as bonds to the supporters. I believe it's the payment on that debt that's due that could cause them to default.

I remember looking at it at the time and thought the structuring looked painful if they ran into any issues... Something like a kick-in of high rates if they missed and payments



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Dave Cahill
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Re: Aviva Premiership: something exciting happens

Post by Dave Cahill »

I don't spend a lot of time looking at the finances at Wasps, because I... well because I don't hate myself.

But, I would I would be very surprised if the Rugby Club and the Stadium were owned by the same company and if they weren't I equally wouldn't be surprised if the biggest single debtor of the Stadium company were the rugby club company (e.g. Thomond Park/Aviva are owned by separate companies to the province/union and the union are the biggest debtors).

That way, the stadium company takes a pre-pack CVA without having to go through the oversight of the RFU (the way the rugby club company would have to), clears most if not all of its unsecured debt, and the Rugby Club, as the biggest debtor, get clear and unencumbered ownership of the stadium. But, as I say, I don't know the ins and outs of it.
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Flash Gordon
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Re: Aviva Premiership: something exciting happens

Post by Flash Gordon »

I believe Worcester are not far behind Wasps. The Premiership financial model has been broken for years, clubs have been running up deficits and debt. Exeter and maybe Saints and Tigers are sustainable but the model doesn't work. Rather than address the issues they've complained about the unfair advantages we and the French clubs have and worked to break the European cup. It's Brexit level arrogance to be perfectly honest.
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IanD
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Re: Aviva Premiership: something exciting happens

Post by IanD »

BBC News - Worcester Warriors: Premiership club in dialogue with HMRC over unpaid tax bill

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/62579806
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Morf
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Re: Aviva Premiership: something exciting happens

Post by Morf »

IanD wrote: August 17th, 2022, 7:50 pm BBC News - Worcester Warriors: Premiership club in dialogue with HMRC over unpaid tax bill

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/62579806
HMRC: "Pay us"

Worcester Warriors: "No"
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IanD
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Re: Aviva Premiership: something exciting happens

Post by IanD »

Morf wrote: August 18th, 2022, 2:44 am
IanD wrote: August 17th, 2022, 7:50 pm BBC News - Worcester Warriors: Premiership club in dialogue with HMRC over unpaid tax bill

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/62579806
HMRC: "Pay us"

Worcester Warriors: "No"
Sad bit is they could take some other businesses with them too.

"BBC Hereford & Worcester says several local businesses have been owed money by the Premiership club."
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paddyor
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Re: Aviva Premiership: something exciting happens

Post by paddyor »

Ruddock's tackle stats consistently too low for me to be taken seriously as a Six Nations blindside..... Ruddock's defensive stats don't stack up. - All Blacks Nil, Jan 15th, 2014
England A 8 - 14 Ireland A, 25th Jan 2014
Ruddock(c) 19/2 Tackles
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Re: Aviva Premiership: something exciting happens

Post by FLIP »

paddyor wrote: August 18th, 2022, 5:20 pm https://www.planetrugby.com/premiership ... npaid-tax/

Winsing up order....
Wasps also being chased for tax
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Re: Aviva Premiership: something exciting happens

Post by Oldschool »

Is any of the above in any way good for Rugby in general, Irish Rugby in particular.
Can't see that it is tbh.
In fact it could lead to the Premiership trying to get the SA clubs to join their league.
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Re: Aviva Premiership: something exciting happens

Post by riocard911 »

Oldschool wrote: August 19th, 2022, 11:29 am Is any of the above in any way good for Rugby in general, Irish Rugby in particular.
Can't see that it is tbh.
In fact it could lead to the Premiership trying to get the SA clubs to join their league.
That was gonna happen anyway. I think we stole a march on the English clubs by hooking up with the Saffers. The more successful the URC becomes, the more discommoded will be the Nigels - just wait until Bok-teams starting knocking top Prem clubs such as Leicester, Quins or even Sarries out of the ERCC, that's when the screeching will seriously kick off!!
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ronk
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Re: Aviva Premiership: something exciting happens

Post by ronk »

To the extent that English clubs were playing beggar thy neighbour, it's a great thing.

The last thing we need after the costs from the pandemic are another bidding war for players.

To the extent that a proud 150+ year old rugby club and it's fans may lose out, it's bad news.
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dropkick
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Re: Aviva Premiership: something exciting happens

Post by dropkick »

Oldschool wrote: August 19th, 2022, 11:29 am Is any of the above in any way good for Rugby in general, Irish Rugby in particular.
Can't see that it is tbh.
In fact it could lead to the Premiership trying to get the SA clubs to join their league.

It's not good but better English clubs struggling than dominating and driving up costs. They must be concerned about the URC though as it is a rival.


What I could see happening is the top English clubs looking to form a B&I league with SA included. There would be 2 divisions.


Rugby in England hasn't taken off the way it has in France. The big difference is the English league is a fairly closed shop while the French league is open and has a clear pathway for teams to make it to the top 14. That must create a buzz and bring in investment to non traditional clubs.
riocard911
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Re: Aviva Premiership: something exciting happens

Post by riocard911 »

dropkick wrote: August 19th, 2022, 1:41 pm
Oldschool wrote: August 19th, 2022, 11:29 am Is any of the above in any way good for Rugby in general, Irish Rugby in particular.
Can't see that it is tbh.
In fact it could lead to the Premiership trying to get the SA clubs to join their league.

It's not good but better English clubs struggling than dominating and driving up costs. They must be concerned about the URC though as it is a rival.


What I could see happening is the top English clubs looking to form a B&I league with SA included. There would be 2 divisions.


Rugby in England hasn't taken off the way it has in France. The big difference is the English league is a fairly closed shop while the French league is open and has a clear pathway for teams to make it to the top 14. That must create a buzz and bring in investment to non traditional clubs.
I can see that happening too. I, however, would be more than happy for the Top 14 and the URC in its current iteration to become the leading rugby leagues on or about our line of longitude with the Prem in third place. If the English want to dig themselves out the financial hole of their own creation, let them grow the game in the Netherlands, Spain etc. and bring in clubs from the rest of Europe to boost their revenue streams. Allowing them to plunder ours is the last thing we should do.
Last edited by riocard911 on August 19th, 2022, 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Aviva Premiership: something exciting happens

Post by FLIP »

The PRL folding and the English clubs being back under the control of the RFU would be a good thing for rugby as a whole
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IanD
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Re: Aviva Premiership: something exciting happens

Post by IanD »

BBC News - Wasps confirm dialogue with HMRC over unpaid tax bill
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/62609971

From the link above.

"The most recent set of accounts, for Wasps Holdings, which covered the financial year ending June 2021, shows an £18.5m loss over a two-year period, with current liabilities of £54.7m."
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paddyor
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Re: Aviva Premiership: something exciting happens

Post by paddyor »

C&P from another site.

From local Worcester news reporter Marcello Cossali-Francis on twitter -

Warriors update: so it sounds very much as if the club will go into administration, likely to be public knowledge on Monday morning.
There remains concern about the fact Warriors the club and land are now separate businesses. Makes it tricky for a buyer if that’s the case.
There are people within the club who no longer are on side with the owners & there is a big worry for staff over their jobs.
Question make over salaries for all at the club. They want a sale of all assets but that might not be what the owners want anymore.
Tax bill is big.
I believe we’ve hit a point where there is serious unrest as the club and a real worry about the future of it.
What needs to happen now is a full sale of all assets to ensure the club do not go bust. But what buyer would take the club and not the land?
Its a real mess folks.
They have split the land into separate businesses from the club. Set up three new ones in the last couple of months.
Sixways Property Limited (July 2022)
Sixways Stadium Limited (June 2022)
Sixways Medical Limited (March 2022)
All separate from WRFC Trading Limited.
Ruddock's tackle stats consistently too low for me to be taken seriously as a Six Nations blindside..... Ruddock's defensive stats don't stack up. - All Blacks Nil, Jan 15th, 2014
England A 8 - 14 Ireland A, 25th Jan 2014
Ruddock(c) 19/2 Tackles
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