Aviva Premiership: something exciting happens

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paddyor
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Re: Aviva Premiership: something exciting happens

Post by paddyor »

neill_m wrote: May 30th, 2023, 1:44 pm Tight Five Rugby
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☘️ NEW: London Irish have been handed a one week extension by the RFU to complete their takeover, they’re safe for at least another week.

More time for the consortium to complete their purchase of the club - good news.
Even if it does get rescued, the rescuers are rumoured to be NFL guy’s interested in acquiring the training ground which gets used for games in the U.K.
Ruddock's tackle stats consistently too low for me to be taken seriously as a Six Nations blindside..... Ruddock's defensive stats don't stack up. - All Blacks Nil, Jan 15th, 2014
England A 8 - 14 Ireland A, 25th Jan 2014
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Dave Cahill
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Re: Aviva Premiership: something exciting happens

Post by Dave Cahill »

Buy the club with loans, transfer the debt to the club, sell the training ground and trouser the cash. Lovely jubbly

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ronk
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Re: Aviva Premiership: something exciting happens

Post by ronk »

MylesNaGapoleen wrote: May 31st, 2023, 7:19 pm
heno wrote: May 31st, 2023, 7:03 pm I haven't seen it mentioned, but I think there was a opinion/belief abound in premiership circles that rwc2015 was going to be rugby coming home, England were more than likely going to win it, the popularity boost would be immense, rugby would be on a new turbo charged trajectory and the dividend to premiership clubs would justify all the decisions that went before. And we all know what happened there...

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I happened to be in england during the week of their last pool games...against Wales & Australia. The expectation was enormous. everywhere pubs had invested in huge outdoor screens and beer gardens, even selling tickets to watch the finals in the same beer garden! expectation was off the scale. they had already won it.

I was with some welsh buddies in a pub when wales pinched it at the death with a superb try and then robshaw famously called to go to touch, instead of take the three and draw. they then threw to the front from the lineout and the welsh pushed them into touch.

As an aside...that sacked coaching team of Lancaster (Leinster, now Racing Metro), Farrell (Ireland), Catt (Ireland), Rowntree (Munster) from 2015 are doing pretty well for themselves now and I reckon they have a point to prove at the next world cup.
Yeah, the RWC was probably the clubs best chance.

And even then their fate rested with them catching some of the glory of their enemy,not actually building something themselves.

It didn't help that Leicester were going through a relatively fallow period, and they're a big part of the engine that drives club growth.
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Flash Gordon
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Re: Aviva Premiership: something exciting happens

Post by Flash Gordon »

Dave Cahill wrote: May 31st, 2023, 9:57 pm Buy the club with loans, transfer the debt to the club, sell the training ground and trouser the cash. Lovely jubbly

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How is that even legal? I thought they banned that in soccer.
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ronk
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Re: Aviva Premiership: something exciting happens

Post by ronk »

Flash Gordon wrote: June 1st, 2023, 10:25 am
Dave Cahill wrote: May 31st, 2023, 9:57 pm Buy the club with loans, transfer the debt to the club, sell the training ground and trouser the cash. Lovely jubbly

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How is that even legal? I thought they banned that in soccer.
Good governance prevents that, but the owners made the rules. They didn't want RFU oversight.

Improving scrutiny and governance is already showing that some of the takeovers have been blocked (at the level of being allowed to join the league)
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Re: Aviva Premiership: something exciting happens

Post by tigerburnie »

ronk wrote: June 1st, 2023, 10:52 am
Flash Gordon wrote: June 1st, 2023, 10:25 am
Dave Cahill wrote: May 31st, 2023, 9:57 pm Buy the club with loans, transfer the debt to the club, sell the training ground and trouser the cash. Lovely jubbly

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How is that even legal? I thought they banned that in soccer.
Good governance prevents that, but the owners made the rules. They didn't want RFU oversight.

Improving scrutiny and governance is already showing that some of the takeovers have been blocked (at the level of being allowed to join the league)
When the game went pro the clubs approached the RFU to run the pro game and the RFU said no, so they were left to their own devices, with the emphasis on vices.
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Re: Aviva Premiership: something exciting happens

Post by Oldschool »

tigerburnie wrote: June 2nd, 2023, 10:06 am
ronk wrote: June 1st, 2023, 10:52 am
Flash Gordon wrote: June 1st, 2023, 10:25 am

How is that even legal? I thought they banned that in soccer.
Good governance prevents that, but the owners made the rules. They didn't want RFU oversight.

Improving scrutiny and governance is already showing that some of the takeovers have been blocked (at the level of being allowed to join the league)
When the game went pro the clubs approached the RFU to run the pro game and the RFU said no, so they were left to their own devices, with the emphasis on vices.
Is it likely that England getting knocked out of RWC 2015 (in England) in the pool stage was the financial catalyst to what's happening.
The RFU, even if they had wanted to, could no longer afford a bail out.
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ronk
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Re: Aviva Premiership: something exciting happens

Post by ronk »

The different response for Covid was decisive.

They got government loans, that then needed to be paid back and shattered the bubble of a way out.

There was no help coming from the government or RFU and everyone had to refinance or soften the blow as it crashed (as the Worcester owners allegedly did).
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Re: Aviva Premiership: something exciting happens

Post by tigerburnie »

After the horse has bolted or to be precise after three of them had
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Re: Aviva Premiership: something exciting happens

Post by IanD »

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/ ... ial-crisis

From the above article

"The current owner, Mick Crossan, could still step in and commit to funding the club for another season but HMRC’s intervention for unpaid tax suggests the end is nigh. Worcester and Wasps both went into administration last year and it was widely acknowledged that winding up petitions ultimately precipitated their downfalls."
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nc6000
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Re: Aviva Premiership: something exciting happens

Post by nc6000 »

Seems like the inevitable has happened and London Irish are gone.
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hugonaut
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Re: Aviva Premiership: something exciting happens

Post by hugonaut »

"The shrinking map of English professional club rugby has lost another familiar name following London Irish’s formal ejection from the Premiership. The Exiles are the third Premiership club in nine months to dissolve financially, reducing the country’s flagship league to 10 teams and leaving around 100 players and staff jobless."

[link: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/ ... ugby-union]
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ronk
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Re: Aviva Premiership: something exciting happens

Post by ronk »

10 teams, 18 game season same as us. Any other year the fast way to make some money would have been add another AI or other game and get the RFU to pay the clubs for the privilege. 1 game in Twickenham would take in more than some clubs gate for a season.

I'd say most of them could weather this out, 3 less snouts sharing the TV and RFU payments trough will make life easier for the rest.
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nc6000
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Re: Aviva Premiership: something exciting happens

Post by nc6000 »

But does the TV money decrease with less rounds of games and less games per round?
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Re: Aviva Premiership: something exciting happens

Post by FLIP »

nc6000 wrote: June 6th, 2023, 9:28 pm But does the TV money decrease with less rounds of games and less games per round?
Probably. And they burnt the bridges with Sky so BT don't even have to offer that much.
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nc6000
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Re: Aviva Premiership: something exciting happens

Post by nc6000 »

FLIP wrote:
nc6000 wrote: June 6th, 2023, 9:28 pm But does the TV money decrease with less rounds of games and less games per round?
Probably. And they burnt the bridges with Sky so BT don't even have to offer that much.
Yeah, you would have to wonder would Sky even want to deal with PRL or EPCR again.
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Re: Aviva Premiership: something exciting happens

Post by hugonaut »

nc6000 wrote: June 6th, 2023, 9:40 pm
FLIP wrote:
nc6000 wrote: June 6th, 2023, 9:28 pm But does the TV money decrease with less rounds of games and less games per round?
Probably. And they burnt the bridges with Sky so BT don't even have to offer that much.
Yeah, you would have to wonder would Sky even want to deal with PRL or EPCR again.
It's just business. Sky have a schedule to fill, and they know how to broadcast and promote rugby. If the price is right for them, they'll bid.

BT have watched this league they promote and broadcast go to sh*t during their deal. The league has suffered massive reputational damage that will be difficult to repair. It is a damaged commodity. BT won't be going out of their way to shore up the league – they didn't invent the PRL, they just pay to broadcast it. Now they will have fewer matches to fill their schedules, and because of the lowered salary cap, worse teams to show.

Gallagher Insurances are the same. They have had a miserable time as title sponsors: first Saracens being found to have cheated, then Covid, now three teams going bust in a single season and at the same time the reduction in the salary cap that is seeing multiple English internationals leave for France.
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Re: Aviva Premiership: something exciting happens

Post by ustix »

hugonaut wrote: June 6th, 2023, 10:10 pm
nc6000 wrote: June 6th, 2023, 9:40 pm
FLIP wrote:
Probably. And they burnt the bridges with Sky so BT don't even have to offer that much.
Yeah, you would have to wonder would Sky even want to deal with PRL or EPCR again.
It's just business. Sky have a schedule to fill, and they know how to broadcast and promote rugby. If the price is right for them, they'll bid.

BT have watched this league they promote and broadcast go to sh*t during their deal. The league has suffered massive reputational damage that will be difficult to repair. It is a damaged commodity. BT won't be going out of their way to shore up the league – they didn't invent the PRL, they just pay to broadcast it. Now they will have fewer matches to fill their schedules, and because of the lowered salary cap, worse teams to show.

Gallagher Insurances are the same. They have had a miserable time as title sponsors: first Saracens being found to have cheated, then Covid, now three teams going bust in a single season and at the same time the reduction in the salary cap that is seeing multiple English internationals leave for France.
Who's off to France?
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nc6000
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Re: Aviva Premiership: something exciting happens

Post by nc6000 »

ustix wrote:
hugonaut wrote: June 6th, 2023, 10:10 pm
nc6000 wrote: June 6th, 2023, 9:40 pm Yeah, you would have to wonder would Sky even want to deal with PRL or EPCR again.
It's just business. Sky have a schedule to fill, and they know how to broadcast and promote rugby. If the price is right for them, they'll bid.

BT have watched this league they promote and broadcast go to sh*t during their deal. The league has suffered massive reputational damage that will be difficult to repair. It is a damaged commodity. BT won't be going out of their way to shore up the league – they didn't invent the PRL, they just pay to broadcast it. Now they will have fewer matches to fill their schedules, and because of the lowered salary cap, worse teams to show.

Gallagher Insurances are the same. They have had a miserable time as title sponsors: first Saracens being found to have cheated, then Covid, now three teams going bust in a single season and at the same time the reduction in the salary cap that is seeing multiple English internationals leave for France.
Who's off to France?
Jack Nowell to La Rochelle, Jack Willis staying with Toulouse, the Simmonds brothers to Montpellier and Pau. Cowan-Dickie was also headed for Montpellier before he missed the medical.
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paddyor
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Re: Aviva Premiership: something exciting happens

Post by paddyor »

nc6000 wrote: June 6th, 2023, 9:28 pm But does the TV money decrease with less rounds of games and less games per round?
The original TV deal only showed 2 maybe 3 games a weekend. I think they've made them available on demand recently but I'm not sur eif that was more a GP effort. So i don't think games per round will be that important but the loss of 4/6 rounds will matter you'd have to think. OTOH those rounds would have been played around test rugby so might not be the most lucrative part of the deal.

It was a bit of a weird deal. Like you could watch every Pro14/URC game but you could only watch 2(or 3) of 6 games a weekend. TOp 14 had every game televised as well IIRC but not the GP. IIRC attendances started to stagnate around 17-19 (and then COvid happens) so it wasn't really putting bums on seats. Maybe it helped keep ticket prices high.
Ruddock's tackle stats consistently too low for me to be taken seriously as a Six Nations blindside..... Ruddock's defensive stats don't stack up. - All Blacks Nil, Jan 15th, 2014
England A 8 - 14 Ireland A, 25th Jan 2014
Ruddock(c) 19/2 Tackles
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