European Champions Cup 23/24

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Ruckedtobits
Rob Kearney
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Re: European Champions Cup 23/24

Post by Ruckedtobits »

Watching the Saint v Bulls game from Saturday evening, I was struck that it was for all the world a First Squad versus a Combined 2nd / Under 20 Squad who had travelled on myriad routes, with minimal training, to make the fixture. There was a great audience in Franklyn Gardens to appreciate the game, but it was hardly a contest.

Saints managed to look impressive and serious candidates to contest a Semi-Final in the European Champions Cup. The reality, through no fault of theirs, is that it was an horrendous mis-match and perhaps Lyon, defeated by Bulls in the previous round, would have been more valid contestants.

EPCR cannot continue with the current format and allow SA teams to participate without some radical alteration in the format. I say this out of complete self-interest as a Leinster supporter. I do not want to find my team placed in a similar quandary in some future European Quarter-final. Having to make or confirm travel arrangements to fly to SA at 6 or 7 days notice, possible to play at altitude in high temperatures, is unfair, and maybe even dangerous, for players carrying bruises or more serious contusions.

Apart from the cost factor, such conditions ignore the training and medical treatment requirements of athletes and make a nonsence of the oft quoted World Rugby claim that "Player welfare is our highest priority". World Rugby should instruct EPCR to immediately amend the Competition structure on the grounds of Player Welfare.

In the immediate future, I'll be watching Saints forthcoming games in the Premiership with interest. There is nothing useful to be gleaned from that non-contest against the Bulls, in the context of our forthcoming game against Northampton. However, their performances against Quins & Leicester may be more informative.
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Flash Gordon
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Re: European Champions Cup 23/24

Post by Flash Gordon »

If teams don't want to compete or feel they can't they shouldn't be in the tournament. It's not just this game, we're selling a lot of tickets for games at the RDS and Aviva where weakened teams are showing up to get hammered, that's not a contest or what sport is all about. This is particularly bad of course because it was the game that decided who would be playing a massive semi final game a situation that could be avoided if teams weren't getting through with little or no effort or a consistent body of results.

That being said, we're also guilty of this. The saffers are prioritising the URC whereas we deprioritised it and fielded weakened teams so we're probably not in a position to throw stones.
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Flash Gordon
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Re: European Champions Cup 23/24

Post by Flash Gordon »

Some discussion in England about the FA cup final moving earlier on the same day as the Champions Cup final as the Met are concerned about security at an evening kick off given that the 2 Manchester teams are in the final. So there's a potential fixture clash between the Champions Cup and FA Cup with English broadcasters facing a choice of coverage in which case you'd imagine they go football.
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SoupyNorman
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Re: European Champions Cup 23/24

Post by SoupyNorman »

Although ITV always get thumped in the ratings for the FA Cup Final (or any other shared soccer match) by the BBC. Still expect the rugby to be the one pushed to ITV 3 or 4.
Maybe a slight chance of it being the main channel if it is a Harlequins and Northampton final.
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Flash Gordon
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Re: European Champions Cup 23/24

Post by Flash Gordon »

SoupyNorman wrote: April 23rd, 2024, 12:01 am Although ITV always get thumped in the ratings for the FA Cup Final (or any other shared soccer match) by the BBC. Still expect the rugby to be the one pushed to ITV 3 or 4.
Maybe a slight chance of it being the main channel if it is a Harlequins and Northampton final.
There will probably be a domestic TV audience of close to 10 million for the FA Cup Final, if the match is Leinster vs Toulouse in the Champions Cup Final I'd be surprised if viewing figures hit 500k. It's hard to go to a city like London without some other major sporting event going on but not sure scheduling the same day as the FA cup final was a great move on a number of levels.
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fourthirtythree
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Re: European Champions Cup 23/24

Post by fourthirtythree »

Flash Gordon wrote: April 23rd, 2024, 10:39 am
SoupyNorman wrote: April 23rd, 2024, 12:01 am Although ITV always get thumped in the ratings for the FA Cup Final (or any other shared soccer match) by the BBC. Still expect the rugby to be the one pushed to ITV 3 or 4.
Maybe a slight chance of it being the main channel if it is a Harlequins and Northampton final.
There will probably be a domestic TV audience of close to 10 million for the FA Cup Final, if the match is Leinster vs Toulouse in the Champions Cup Final I'd be surprised if viewing figures hit 500k. It's hard to go to a city like London without some other major sporting event going on but not sure scheduling the same day as the FA cup final was a great move on a number of levels.
It's been that before. I remember leaving where we had lunch around Twickenham as they all stood up to sing god save the queen before the FA Cup final.

Which is a shadow of its former self anyway. You hear about as much about that sports drink (I had to look it up) cup.
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Flash Gordon
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Re: European Champions Cup 23/24

Post by Flash Gordon »

fourthirtythree wrote: April 23rd, 2024, 10:44 am
Flash Gordon wrote: April 23rd, 2024, 10:39 am
SoupyNorman wrote: April 23rd, 2024, 12:01 am Although ITV always get thumped in the ratings for the FA Cup Final (or any other shared soccer match) by the BBC. Still expect the rugby to be the one pushed to ITV 3 or 4.
Maybe a slight chance of it being the main channel if it is a Harlequins and Northampton final.
There will probably be a domestic TV audience of close to 10 million for the FA Cup Final, if the match is Leinster vs Toulouse in the Champions Cup Final I'd be surprised if viewing figures hit 500k. It's hard to go to a city like London without some other major sporting event going on but not sure scheduling the same day as the FA cup final was a great move on a number of levels.
It's been that before. I remember leaving where we had lunch around Twickenham as they all stood up to sing god save the queen before the FA Cup final.

Which is a shadow of its former self anyway. You hear about as much about that sports drink (I had to look it up) cup.
Might not be what it was in the 70's and 80's but it's still a pretty big deal with millions of people watching it on TV particularly given that it's a Manchester derby at a sold out Wembley and big enough that the Met Police might change kick of times for security reasons. It's also a considerably bigger deal to the English than a rugby final. If the kick off times get bumped and there's a clash with the Champions Cup final advertising, sponsorship and TV viewership all get impacted which is bad for rugby.
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SoupyNorman
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Re: European Champions Cup 23/24

Post by SoupyNorman »

Flash Gordon wrote: April 23rd, 2024, 10:39 am
SoupyNorman wrote: April 23rd, 2024, 12:01 am Although ITV always get thumped in the ratings for the FA Cup Final (or any other shared soccer match) by the BBC. Still expect the rugby to be the one pushed to ITV 3 or 4.
Maybe a slight chance of it being the main channel if it is a Harlequins and Northampton final.
There will probably be a domestic TV audience of close to 10 million for the FA Cup Final, if the match is Leinster vs Toulouse in the Champions Cup Final I'd be surprised if viewing figures hit 500k. It's hard to go to a city like London without some other major sporting event going on but not sure scheduling the same day as the FA cup final was a great move on a number of levels.
True the FA Cup final will get a significantly bigger audience than Investec on domestic Tv.

However, BBC will almost monopolies those ratings. Though ITV having a tiny slice of the FA Cup audience is still going to be significantly bigger than having the sole terrestrial rights to the Investec.
neill_m
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Re: European Champions Cup 23/24

Post by neill_m »

FA Cup Final is confirmed for a 3pm kick off, currently clashing with the rugby (2:45pm). Apparently the EPCR don't want to move the time as their audience in France is impacted with a later kick off with the French Cup Final PSG v Lyon and the Cannes Film Festival.
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ronk
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Re: European Champions Cup 23/24

Post by ronk »

Cheers Neil. I guess the risk was a tradeoff to make other things fit.

It's fortunate that I'm not in the audience affected by this.
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fourthirtythree
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Re: European Champions Cup 23/24

Post by fourthirtythree »

neill_m wrote: April 23rd, 2024, 11:17 am FA Cup Final is confirmed for a 3pm kick off, currently clashing with the rugby (2:45pm). Apparently the EPCR don't want to move the time as their audience in France is impacted with a later kick off with the French Cup Final PSG v Lyon and the Cannes Film Festival.
French call the shots on scheduling and time in the EPCR.
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MylesNaGapoleen
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Re: European Champions Cup 23/24

Post by MylesNaGapoleen »

shame that there's a clash but I think London can absorb two massive events like this. Let's face it...lots of soccer stadia around London fill out most weekends in London, along with Hyde park concerts etc and it doesn't grind to a halt.
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MylesNaGapoleen
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Re: European Champions Cup 23/24

Post by MylesNaGapoleen »

neill_m wrote: April 23rd, 2024, 11:17 am FA Cup Final is confirmed for a 3pm kick off, currently clashing with the rugby (2:45pm). Apparently the EPCR don't want to move the time as their audience in France is impacted with a later kick off with the French Cup Final PSG v Lyon and the Cannes Film Festival.
Police moved forward the FA CUP final. ECPR should move the champions cup final to 17:30. PSG v Lyon kicks off at 20:00.
French audience will definitely watch if Toulouse make it. Both BBC & ITV show the FA cup final, which means the champions cup final relegated to ITV4 if it's on at the same time.
SoupyNorman
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Re: European Champions Cup 23/24

Post by SoupyNorman »

A lot of the tickets already sold for the Investec final with a 2.45pm kick off stated would be a further issue. Especially with many having travel arrangements booked. While FA CUP Final tickets aren't released until after the semis.
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MylesNaGapoleen
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Re: European Champions Cup 23/24

Post by MylesNaGapoleen »

SoupyNorman wrote: April 23rd, 2024, 3:45 pm A lot of the tickets already sold for the Investec final with a 2.45pm kick off stated would be a further issue. Especially with many having travel arrangements booked. While FA CUP Final tickets aren't released until after the semis.
yep, it would be disruptive but they don't issue the tickets until after the semi finals each year, when they know who is taking part.
I bought mine last year just after the Dublin final.
neill_m
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Re: European Champions Cup 23/24

Post by neill_m »

MylesNaGapoleen wrote: April 23rd, 2024, 3:04 pm
neill_m wrote: April 23rd, 2024, 11:17 am FA Cup Final is confirmed for a 3pm kick off, currently clashing with the rugby (2:45pm). Apparently the EPCR don't want to move the time as their audience in France is impacted with a later kick off with the French Cup Final PSG v Lyon and the Cannes Film Festival.
Police moved forward the FA CUP final. ECPR should move the champions cup final to 17:30. PSG v Lyon kicks off at 20:00.
French audience will definitely watch if Toulouse make it. Both BBC & ITV show the FA cup final, which means the champions cup final relegated to ITV4 if it's on at the same time.
Apparently the Cannes Film Festival on that Saturday is another big TV event in France, yes you are correct a 5:30pm (6:30pm French Time) kick off time would not clash with the football. I am sure the Swiss Nigels had their reasons for the original 2:45pm time.

FA Cup final time is not fixed and subject to change depending who is in it. My question is, did the EPCR actively know the date of the FA Cup Final for this season when they chose Spurs stadium. Two big finals etc on same day.
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MylesNaGapoleen
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Re: European Champions Cup 23/24

Post by MylesNaGapoleen »

As an aside, I bumped into one of the ECPR team on a flight from Dublin to Zurich a while back. He is from Cork and commutes regularly to Lausanne. I doubt they knew the FA cup final dates when they announced their European rugby weekend dates. It moves around a lot...usually the last sat in May.

London is big enough to absorb both events. Spurs stadium is quite a distance outside the city centre....and the other side of town from where Wembley is. I think TV would be the main concern, being on the same time as the FA Cup.

didn't know that about cannes film festival being a big TV event....I live close to the french border and haven't noticed that.
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cormac
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Re: European Champions Cup 23/24

Post by cormac »

MylesNaGapoleen wrote: April 23rd, 2024, 3:04 pm
neill_m wrote: April 23rd, 2024, 11:17 am FA Cup Final is confirmed for a 3pm kick off, currently clashing with the rugby (2:45pm). Apparently the EPCR don't want to move the time as their audience in France is impacted with a later kick off with the French Cup Final PSG v Lyon and the Cannes Film Festival.
Police moved forward the FA CUP final. ECPR should move the champions cup final to 17:30. PSG v Lyon kicks off at 20:00.
French audience will definitely watch if Toulouse make it. Both BBC & ITV show the FA cup final, which means the champions cup final relegated to ITV4 if it's on at the same time.
Yeah, just screw over the people who’ve booked flights based on a kick-off time they’ve been advertising for months now. Great strategy.
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MylesNaGapoleen
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Re: European Champions Cup 23/24

Post by MylesNaGapoleen »

cormac wrote: April 23rd, 2024, 9:12 pm
MylesNaGapoleen wrote: April 23rd, 2024, 3:04 pm
neill_m wrote: April 23rd, 2024, 11:17 am FA Cup Final is confirmed for a 3pm kick off, currently clashing with the rugby (2:45pm). Apparently the EPCR don't want to move the time as their audience in France is impacted with a later kick off with the French Cup Final PSG v Lyon and the Cannes Film Festival.
Police moved forward the FA CUP final. ECPR should move the champions cup final to 17:30. PSG v Lyon kicks off at 20:00.
French audience will definitely watch if Toulouse make it. Both BBC & ITV show the FA cup final, which means the champions cup final relegated to ITV4 if it's on at the same time.
Yeah, just screw over the people who’ve booked flights based on a kick-off time they’ve been advertising for months now. Great strategy.
that's a fair point for those flying in and out the same day. it's expensive to do that, at the best of times and not many airlines will offer free cancellation, like hotels do. Do you think many people have done that - without knowing who is going to be in the final, yet?
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Xanthippe
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Re: European Champions Cup 23/24

Post by Xanthippe »

MylesNaGapoleen wrote: April 23rd, 2024, 10:10 pm
cormac wrote: April 23rd, 2024, 9:12 pm
MylesNaGapoleen wrote: April 23rd, 2024, 3:04 pm

Police moved forward the FA CUP final. ECPR should move the champions cup final to 17:30. PSG v Lyon kicks off at 20:00.
French audience will definitely watch if Toulouse make it. Both BBC & ITV show the FA cup final, which means the champions cup final relegated to ITV4 if it's on at the same time.
Yeah, just screw over the people who’ve booked flights based on a kick-off time they’ve been advertising for months now. Great strategy.
that's a fair point for those flying in and out the same day. it's expensive to do that, at the best of times and not many airlines will offer free cancellation, like hotels do. Do you think many people have done that - without knowing who is going to be in the final, yet?
I did - we have flights in and out of Birmingham based on the time of the final and the time to drive to and from the airport
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