Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

[naraic]

Is Loughman injured?

Yep.

[desperado]

M#1 those are not logical conclusions below:
That is impressive even on a like for like basis, but when you take each cities respective populations into account, then, imo, you come to 1 of 3 conclusion.
a. Leinster are underperforming
b. Munster are over performing
c. Both of the above

More like if you take each cities populations into account :
a. A much larger % of the population of Dublin are not interested in rugby.
b. A much larger % of the population of Limerick are interested in rugby.
c. both of the above.
I don't see anything unusual or strange in that. And begs the question; how come Munster can't seem to unearth more talent from Limerick. Of the current crop (Hodnett, Kendellen, Wycherly(s), Daly, Buckley, Coombes, Campbell... all Cork; Casey and Nash from Limerick)

[wixfjord]

Leinster drastically underperform in crowd size given the potential market (not just Dublin, but the wider province) that it has to capture, and has failed to meaningfully grow crowd sizes despite success.

Munster regularly outperform us in crowd sizes yet some on here seem to take glee in Thomond not being full, despite there actually being more of a crowd there than we get in the RDS.

All well and good getting big crowds into the Aviva for 'events', but for normal league games we fail to get more than 16k 99% of the time.

There were 15,653 in the RDS on Friday and 17,097 in Thomond on Saturday.

There were more people in Thomond on Saturday than we got for our RDS Heineken Cup game this season.

In fact we've only had one crowd in the RDS bigger than Munster's crowd.

Part of this is facilities, part of it is Leinster failing to attract fans.

[paddyor]

Leinster drastically underperform in crowd size given the potential market (not just Dublin, but the wider province) that it has to capture, and has failed to meaningfully grow crowd sizes despite success.

Munster regularly outperform us in crowd sizes yet some on here seem to take glee in Thomond not being full, despite there actually being more of a crowd there than we get in the RDS.

All well and good getting big crowds into the Aviva for 'events', but for normal league games we fail to get more than 16k 99% of the time.

There were 15,653 in the RDS on Friday and 17,097 in Thomond on Saturday.

There were more people in Thomond on Saturday than we got for our RDS Heineken Cup game this season.

In fact we've only had one crowd in the RDS bigger than Munster's crowd.

Part of this is facilities, part of it is Leinster failing to attract fans.

Maybe I caught sight of the stand at ht, but it really didn't look like 17k of 26k. They'd a lot of the terraces covered/closed and at least one of the stands didn't look half full. I wasn't beeing snide(as I said I was at a gig on Friday night) and as has been said att are the least of Munster worries.If it's 17k fair enough that's pretty good, but it looks a lot smaller in that stadium.

[Keith]

Leinster drastically underperform in crowd size given the potential market (not just Dublin, but the wider province) that it has to capture, and has failed to meaningfully grow crowd sizes despite success.

Munster regularly outperform us in crowd sizes yet some on here seem to take glee in Thomond not being full, despite there actually being more of a crowd there than we get in the RDS.

All well and good getting big crowds into the Aviva for 'events', but for normal league games we fail to get more than 16k 99% of the time.

There were 15,653 in the RDS on Friday and 17,097 in Thomond on Saturday.

There were more people in Thomond on Saturday than we got for our RDS Heineken Cup game this season.

In fact we've only had one crowd in the RDS bigger than Munster's crowd.

Part of this is facilities, part of it is Leinster failing to attract fans.

I hate to make excuses as I agree with what you are saying... but I'd love to see revenue from ticket sales across European clubs as I feel Leinster do have very pricey tickets. I can't see many teams charging 60 quid for a run of the mill league game for Instance (anglesa stand), which is a factor in attendances. I could be way off here as I haven't done any reaserch into this.

[wixfjord]

Leinster drastically underperform in crowd size given the potential market (not just Dublin, but the wider province) that it has to capture, and has failed to meaningfully grow crowd sizes despite success.

Munster regularly outperform us in crowd sizes yet some on here seem to take glee in Thomond not being full, despite there actually being more of a crowd there than we get in the RDS.

All well and good getting big crowds into the Aviva for 'events', but for normal league games we fail to get more than 16k 99% of the time.

There were 15,653 in the RDS on Friday and 17,097 in Thomond on Saturday.

There were more people in Thomond on Saturday than we got for our RDS Heineken Cup game this season.

In fact we've only had one crowd in the RDS bigger than Munster's crowd.

Part of this is facilities, part of it is Leinster failing to attract fans.

I hate to make excuses as I agree with what you are saying... but I'd love to see revenue from ticket sales across European clubs as I feel Leinster do have very pricey tickets. I can't see many teams charging 60 quid for a run of the mill league game for Instance (anglesa stand), which is a factor in attendances. I could be way off here as I haven't done any reaserch into this.

60 is one of the highest ticket prices though, tickets for many league games available from 25/30 quid.

I don't believe there's much price difference in general between Leinster & Munster for tickets.

The facts are that for non 'event' games, most of which are in the Aviva, our RDS crowd sizes aren't great for the size of the catchment area we're active in.

Personally I believe a big part of that is facilities and comfort, but we've failed to grow crowds meaningfully in the last few years of the pre-covid era and since then.

[Schumi]

Leinster drastically underperform in crowd size given the potential market (not just Dublin, but the wider province) that it has to capture, and has failed to meaningfully grow crowd sizes despite success.

Munster regularly outperform us in crowd sizes yet some on here seem to take glee in Thomond not being full, despite there actually being more of a crowd there than we get in the RDS.

All well and good getting big crowds into the Aviva for 'events', but for normal league games we fail to get more than 16k 99% of the time.

There were 15,653 in the RDS on Friday and 17,097 in Thomond on Saturday.

There were more people in Thomond on Saturday than we got for our RDS Heineken Cup game this season.

In fact we've only had one crowd in the RDS bigger than Munster's crowd.

Part of this is facilities, part of it is Leinster failing to attract fans.

With season tickets making up such a large proportion of the RDS capacity, it's hard to get a crowd of much over 17k to a game there. If season ticket holders miss an average of one RDS game a year, that's 1,300 or so empty seats on average.

As an aside, I think Leinster's crowds this season are up significantly from pre-pandemic. We've had 3 crowds over 14,000 for non-derby league games this season compared to 4 from the 2016-17 season up to last season (3 were against the Scarlets interestingly). The lowest crowd this year was 12,400 compared to multiple crowds under 11k in past seasons. Still plenty of scope for improvement but attendances this year have been very encouraging for me.

[Laighin Break]

With season tickets making up such a large proportion of the RDS capacity, it's hard to get a crowd of much over 17k to a game there. If season ticket holders miss an average of one RDS game a year, that's 1,300 or so empty seats on average.

You know it's possible to pass a ticket on to someone else, right? Might be more of a challenge for Zebre/Dragons at home, but shouldn't be for most

[Schumi]

With season tickets making up such a large proportion of the RDS capacity, it's hard to get a crowd of much over 17k to a game there. If season ticket holders miss an average of one RDS game a year, that's 1,300 or so empty seats on average.

You know it's possible to pass a ticket on to someone else, right? Might be more of a challenge for Zebre/Dragons at home, but shouldn't be for most

Of course, but do people do it?

[Keith]

Leinster drastically underperform in crowd size given the potential market (not just Dublin, but the wider province) that it has to capture, and has failed to meaningfully grow crowd sizes despite success.

Munster regularly outperform us in crowd sizes yet some on here seem to take glee in Thomond not being full, despite there actually being more of a crowd there than we get in the RDS.

All well and good getting big crowds into the Aviva for 'events', but for normal league games we fail to get more than 16k 99% of the time.

There were 15,653 in the RDS on Friday and 17,097 in Thomond on Saturday.

There were more people in Thomond on Saturday than we got for our RDS Heineken Cup game this season.

In fact we've only had one crowd in the RDS bigger than Munster's crowd.

Part of this is facilities, part of it is Leinster failing to attract fans.

I hate to make excuses as I agree with what you are saying... but I'd love to see revenue from ticket sales across European clubs as I feel Leinster do have very pricey tickets. I can't see many teams charging 60 quid for a run of the mill league game for Instance (anglesa stand), which is a factor in attendances. I could be way off here as I haven't done any reaserch into this.

60 is one of the highest ticket prices though, tickets for many league games available from 25/30 quid.

I don't believe there's much price difference in general between Leinster & Munster for tickets.

The facts are that for non 'event' games, most of which are in the Aviva, our RDS crowd sizes aren't great for the size of the catchment area we're active in.

Personally I believe a big part of that is facilities and comfort, but we've failed to grow crowds meaningfully in the last few years of the pre-covid era and since then.

Those 30 quid tickets are in the exposed North and south stands though and as we saw with the weather on Friday, isn't very attractive. For instance if I'm going to sit in the North/South stand, I usually wait until the day of the game before buying the tickets to see what the weather is like.

As you say the facilities are a big factor as is the price for covered seats. I do agree we've failed to grow our crowds meaningfully but I've been content with attendances so far this season.

[blockhead]

Crowds are up this year, and we're on course to maintain our position as the best supported club in the URC since.. well probably since we move to the RDS. Although, Stormers could nick it this year with 2 big games to come.
Most supported clubs in the URC -Leinster, Stormers, Sharks, Bulls in that order with Ulster and Munster not far behind the Bulls.
Could be a record year for average attendances in the URC, currently over 9,300/game.

[munster#1]

Crowds are up this year, and we're on course to maintain our position as the best supported club in the URC since.. well probably since we move to the RDS. Although, Stormers could nick it this year with 2 big games to come.
Most supported clubs in the URC -Leinster, Stormers, Sharks, Bulls in that order with Ulster and Munster not far behind the Bulls.
Could be a record year for average attendances in the URC, currently over 9,300/game.

Interesting to hear that.
Shows how successful the introduction of the SA teams has been.

Any chance you can provide a link to the data?

[Keith]

Crowds are up this year, and we're on course to maintain our position as the best supported club in the URC since.. well probably since we move to the RDS. Although, Stormers could nick it this year with 2 big games to come.
Most supported clubs in the URC -Leinster, Stormers, Sharks, Bulls in that order with Ulster and Munster not far behind the Bulls.
Could be a record year for average attendances in the URC, currently over 9,300/game.

Interesting to hear that.
Shows how successful the introduction of the SA teams has been.

Any chance you can provide a link to the data?

https://www.cardiffrfcfans.com/analysis ... ?clubID=16

Average attendance for Leinster is 20k and that will increase further with the HC knockout games.

[munster#1]

Crowds are up this year, and we're on course to maintain our position as the best supported club in the URC since.. well probably since we move to the RDS. Although, Stormers could nick it this year with 2 big games to come.
Most supported clubs in the URC -Leinster, Stormers, Sharks, Bulls in that order with Ulster and Munster not far behind the Bulls.
Could be a record year for average attendances in the URC, currently over 9,300/game.

Interesting to hear that.
Shows how successful the introduction of the SA teams has been.

Any chance you can provide a link to the data?

https://www.cardiffrfcfans.com/analysis ... ?clubID=16

Average attendance for Leinster is 20k and that will increase further with the HC knockout games.

Those stats are also interesting, however, unless I’m missing something I can’t seem to establish the URC average attendances that Blockhead mentions.

From the link you provided, the Munster average is higher than all 4 SA teams and Ulster, but that’s the combined average of Europe and URC.

[riocard911]

Crowds are up this year, and we're on course to maintain our position as the best supported club in the URC since.. well probably since we move to the RDS. Although, Stormers could nick it this year with 2 big games to come.
Most supported clubs in the URC -Leinster, Stormers, Sharks, Bulls in that order with Ulster and Munster not far behind the Bulls.
Could be a record year for average attendances in the URC, currently over 9,300/game.

Interesting to hear that.
Shows how successful the introduction of the SA teams has been.

Any chance you can provide a link to the data?

https://www.cardiffrfcfans.com/analysis ... ?clubID=16

Average attendance for Leinster is 20k and that will increase further with the HC knockout games.

Great website. Thanks for the link.

[Laighin Break]

With season tickets making up such a large proportion of the RDS capacity, it's hard to get a crowd of much over 17k to a game there. If season ticket holders miss an average of one RDS game a year, that's 1,300 or so empty seats on average.

You know it's possible to pass a ticket on to someone else, right? Might be more of a challenge for Zebre/Dragons at home, but shouldn't be for most

Of course, but do people do it?

I always did anyway. Had a pecking order of who to ask when there was a ticket to spare. Always managed to get someone

[munster#1]

Interesting to hear comments that the reason for Leinster having relatively low attendances at the RDS being as a result of the RDS itself.

Do ye believe that the planned redevelopment will be enough to get more people through the door?

From a Munster perspective, now would seem like an opportune time to increase the capacity of Musgrave Park to around 12k.
With 4 sellouts including the U20s and 8 concerts, it would be justified, and imo is required.

[ronk]

Given up on Paic Ui Caoimh already?

[sunshiner1]

by munster#1

From a Munster perspective, now would seem like an opportune time to increase the capacity of Musgrave Park to around 12k.
With 4 sellouts including the U20s and 8 concerts, it would be justified, and imo is required.

Would it though? The debt for Thomond Park hurt Munster (and the IRFU) for a long time. Musgrave Park was done up not that long ago and seems fit for purpose.

[Dave Cahill]

by munster#1

From a Munster perspective, now would seem like an opportune time to increase the capacity of Musgrave Park to around 12k.
With 4 sellouts including the U20s and 8 concerts, it would be justified, and imo is required.

Would it though? The debt for Thomond Park hurt Munster (and the IRFU) for a long time. Musgrave Park was done up not that long ago and seems fit for purpose.

And getting anything done in Cork is a nightmare - the residents in Ballyphehane are particularly concerned about Muzzer, are well organised, and guess who is back on the council from that ward?