Grahamunster - Graham Rowntree's Munster 2022/2023

[ChrisUppy]

Renamed thread so it is not confused with the many other Munster Threads.

Why can't you simply post on the original thread? Don't think there is a necessity for an individual preseason thread

[ChrisUppy]

Just been informed by a source who is usually right, that Munster have been given the green light to sign and NIQ TH.

Supposedly they have been in talks with a French based prop.
Thinking logically it would likely be someone who comes recommended by Prendergast, I just can’t think who it might be.

Cross posting M#1's personal Munster thread to here.

Would make a lot of sense, they've been crying out for a decent TH since Botha. I kind of thought Oli Jager was destined to be handed to them but he doesn't seem interested in coming back to play here and fair play he's making a decent career for himself out in NZ.

Presumably this would be a non French TH as they rarely leave. Just looking at Racing, Trevor Nyakane is on their books and would be exactly the profile of player they're looking for. 33, an international, can even play both sides of the scrum.

Makes no sense whatsoever that Munster be allowed chop Ryan and sign a NIQ. Sure, he's fallen out of the Ireland squad but he's still on the depth chart and could be needed with injuries. There are only 3 tightheads before you're switching someone across or recalling Moore. It's a year out from the World Cup.

It's making a call to give up on Knox and Salanoa without ever giving them a chance. The only justification is panic (or playing chicken) and it's a terrible terrible reason. A new coach gives the excuse that they can blame the outgoing guy but it's also showing that there's zero backbone over being serious about development. Tighthead was the red-line. BJ Botha was extended to 5 years and they had to develop a tighthead no matter what. They didn't and now they've giving up.

Knox got a 2 year extension, Salanoa 3.

Why would anything think that Munster will change if they allow this? May as well have kept JvG.

It makes sense from a Munster rugby perspective. Ryan isn't bad and far superior to Archer imo. Additionally he has an ongoing health condition - to what extent that affects his ability to perform at his best week in week out I won't speculate but it could be an issue. But most pertinently I think Munster need a top class front rower in one form or another - it would give their first team the greatest relative gain for any position.

I'm not really taking in to account the greater good from an Ireland perspective tbh, just trying to put myself in the shoes of a Munster fan (ew, feels dirty).

[ronk]

Cross posting M#1's personal Munster thread to here.

Would make a lot of sense, they've been crying out for a decent TH since Botha. I kind of thought Oli Jager was destined to be handed to them but he doesn't seem interested in coming back to play here and fair play he's making a decent career for himself out in NZ.

Presumably this would be a non French TH as they rarely leave. Just looking at Racing, Trevor Nyakane is on their books and would be exactly the profile of player they're looking for. 33, an international, can even play both sides of the scrum.

Makes no sense whatsoever that Munster be allowed chop Ryan and sign a NIQ. Sure, he's fallen out of the Ireland squad but he's still on the depth chart and could be needed with injuries. There are only 3 tightheads before you're switching someone across or recalling Moore. It's a year out from the World Cup.

It's making a call to give up on Knox and Salanoa without ever giving them a chance. The only justification is panic (or playing chicken) and it's a terrible terrible reason. A new coach gives the excuse that they can blame the outgoing guy but it's also showing that there's zero backbone over being serious about development. Tighthead was the red-line. BJ Botha was extended to 5 years and they had to develop a tighthead no matter what. They didn't and now they've giving up.

Knox got a 2 year extension, Salanoa 3.

Why would anything think that Munster will change if they allow this? May as well have kept JvG.

It makes sense from a Munster rugby perspective. Ryan isn't bad and far superior to Archer imo. Additionally he has an ongoing health condition - to what extent that affects his ability to perform at his best week in week out I won't speculate but it could be an issue. But most pertinently I think Munster need a top class front rower in one form or another - it would give their first team the greatest relative gain for any position.

I'm not really taking in to account the greater good from an Ireland perspective tbh, just trying to put myself in the shoes of a Munster fan (ew, feels dirty).

All signings that improve the depth chart in any way are good from a certain perspective. i.e. all signings are good ones if you look narrowly enough.

Ryan has almost 200 games. Played 21 games for Munster this year and was playing for Ireland last year.

Munster don't want to pay international money for their backup tighthead, I get that. The easiest path for development for them is to stick with Archer and ease Knox in. If he doesn't develop then at least they tried.

Proper player development will be worth far more than a NIQ tighthead to Munster. Tighthead is special.

Munster developed John Hayes, Botha came in as he was retiring and got extended because of the mess they were. Botha helped turn Archer into a passable tighthead but they never actually brought through a tighthead. Ryan switched from loosehead and they managed. They bought a few extra years by poaching some young project players and pretending to develop them. But it was box ticking rather than serious. I knew they were always going to come running to the IRFU with a begging bowl. The IRFU know it too, that's why I've referred to it as a game of chicken.

If Munster try for a year and fail then there's a case for signing someone. If they successfully avoid really trying then they never will try. A key part of Leinster's development is the risk taking involved in not making signings. If you don't make the signing then you are committing to give someone a shot. If you make the signing, then it's hard to justify development minutes, you need to sweat the asset. Leinster rebuilt because the IRFU said no to rebuilding except for the most dire cases.

Munster have already signed 2 99kg centres for next year.

[ronk]

Renamed thread so it is not confused with the many other Munster Threads.

Why can't you simply post on the original thread? Don't think there is a necessity for an individual preseason thread

It's 'cos he doesn't like me (apparently I point out things that aren't correct too often), or fruit pastilles.

I don't mind what thread I'm in. I'm not sensitive if we merge to avoid confusion.

[Ruckedtobits]

It's almost a 'white flag' when you start a thread on June 10th with "Pre-season" in the title.

[Dave Cahill]

[munster#1]

It's almost a 'white flag' when you start a thread on June 10th with "Pre-season" in the title.

If ever there was an example of karma, then this would be right up there with the best.

[ronk]

It's almost a 'white flag' when you start a thread on June 10th with "Pre-season" in the title.

If ever there was an example of karma, then this would be right up there with the best.

#notawum

[Oldschoolsocks]

It's almost a 'white flag' when you start a thread on June 10th with "Pre-season" in the title.

If ever there was an example of karma, then this would be right up there with the best.

#notawum

#thefoebuttonrocks

[munster#1]

If ever there was an example of karma, then this would be right up there with the best.

#notawum

#thefoebuttonrocks

It was cleary a joke in retaliation to another joke, and a good one at that.

I even went as far as adding a wink emoji to appease the oversell sensitive posters on here.

[OTT]

What time is the Munster game ?
Is it on de telly?

[munster#1]

Interesting to hear about someone like Osborne retiring due to head injuries.

He has played very little in comparison to the likes of Sexton and Ryan who have both had periods of rest due to head injuries.

Anyone know the process involved in accessing a player to confirm that they can recover from repeated head head injuries while someone like Osbourne could not?
With all that is going on with regards to claims due to brain injuries, it must be difficult for medical professionals to give the green light.

Hopefully it is not a measure of some permanent damage which has already been caused.

[Morf]

Anyone know the process involved in accessing a player to confirm that they can recover from repeated head head injuries while someone like Osbourne could not?

How long you need to return to pre-concussion functioning. If its taking longer and longer or symptoms are worse and worse each time or like Ben Marshall you get one bad concussion and not fully recover they might be grounds for suggested retirement. MRI/tests are only giving reasons why recovery is/isn't happening not directing care that much from what I'm aware.

I'm sure some guys if they're looking at a journeyman career in rugby are ok taking an insurance payout to transition into post pro rugby too. There's less to fight for or be worth suffering through.

[munster#1]

Anyone know the process involved in accessing a player to confirm that they can recover from repeated head head injuries while someone like Osbourne could not?

How long you need to return to pre-concussion functioning. If its taking longer and longer or symptoms are worse and worse each time or like Ben Marshall you get one bad concussion and not fully recover they might be grounds for suggested retirement. MRI/tests are only giving reasons why recovery is/isn't happening not directing care that much from what I'm aware.

I'm sure some guys if they're looking at a journeyman career in rugby are ok taking an insurance payout to transition into post pro rugby too. There's less to fight for or be worth suffering through.

Thanks Morf.
Interesting to think then that some players/people must have a predisposition to sever concussion issues, as you can’t imagine Osbornes would of had a high number of concussions.

You’d have to wonder how many Osbornes played full careers with high numbers of unrecorded concussions prior to them being taken seriously.
I can think of a few internationals from the late 90s an early 00s who would of had a good number of head injuries yet played on.

[munster#1]

Munster's Squad For 2022/23

1. Dave Kilcoyne, Jeremy Loughman, Josh Wycherley, Liam O'Connor, (Mark Donnelly)*
2. Niall Scannell, Diarmuid Barron, Scott Buckley
3. Stephen Archer, Keynan Knox, Roman Salanoa, James French
4. Jean Kleyn, Finneen Wycherley, (Eoin O'Connor, Edwin Edogbo)*
5. Tadhg Bernie, RG Snyman, Thomas Ahern, (Paddy Kelly)*
6. Peter O'Mahony, Jack Daly, (Cian Hurley)*
7. Jack O'Donoghue, John Hodnett, Jack O'Sullivan
8. Gavin Coombes, Alex Kendellen, (Daniel Okeke)*
9. Conor Murray, Craig Casey, Neil Cronin, (Ethan Coughlan, Paddy Patterson)*
10. Joey Carbery, Ben Healy, Jack Crowley, (Tony Butler)*
11. Simon Zebo, Shane Daly, (Conor Phillips)*
12. Malakai Fekitoa, Antoine Frisch, Rory Scannell
13. Chris Farrell, Dan Goggin, Liam Coombes
14. Andrew Conway, Keith Earls, Calvin Nash
15. Mike Haley, (Patrick Cambell)*

* Academy players. (Believe Kendellen and Buckley are being promoted to the senior squad.)

This is robbed from Facebook, so may not include all players.
Looking from 1- 15 it is good to see so many young, homegrown talents.

I still think Munster are light at TH but most other positions look good, with either a very talented player already there or some real potential coming through.

Looking at next season with a view to take on the big SA teams, I think we have the back 5 forwards to compete, with RG, Beirne, Kleyn, Wycherley, POM, JOD and Coombes being match for most squads, and Okeke could be a revelation.

It is the front row where Munster will likely struggle, as there are no clear power players available.

In the back, Murray is as big as any SH, and Munster definitely have the bulk in the Centre, so the can match power in the backs, but I would hope that they will continue to develop the wide wide game that we seen glimpses of this season.

Really looking forward to seeing Buckley, Okeke, Butler and Couglan next season, and I’m hearing great things about Philips and Edogobo too.

[munster#1]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.rugbyp ... endergast/

Great article on Prendergast.
Interesting to hear about how he pushed his way into a professional coaching contract.
With such limited opportunities in Ireland, and probably even less when you are someone like Prendergast as opposed to a POC, this is a real good news story.

His experience of working in four different teams in various role will definitely be something that Munster will look to tap into next season.

[FLIP]

Can we get the other thread merged into this one? This thread was first

Thanks limecat

[ronk]

https://www.munsterrugby.ie/2022/06/17/ ... pdate-204/

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I hadn’t realised that Jager’s contract is up now, surely he must be on move? He’s starting for the Super Rugby champions, there must be a good reason why he hasn’t been signed up.

Maybe he waited to see if he made the NZ squad before committing?

[munster#1]

I hadn’t realised that Jager’s contract is up now, surely he must be on move? He’s starting for the Super Rugby champions, there must be a good reason why he hasn’t been signed up.

Maybe he waited to see if he made the NZ squad before committing?

This is something that Munster and the IRFU should be pushing hard to make happen.
Ireland are far from over ran with quality THs, so any and all available options should be looked at.

Jager is still only 26, so still has time to improve even further than he has to date.
Given the lack of depth at TH, Jager could potentially walk straight into the Irish squad.