Schools SCT Rugby 22/23

[mildlyinterested]

Thursday 9 March, Newbridge College v Gonzaga College, in Energia Park, KO 3pm
St Michael’s College:
15. David Lucey
14. Larry Kirkham
13. Jules Fenelon
12. Mark Canniffe
11. Patrick Wood
10. Wilhelm De Klerk – VICE CAPTAIN
9. James Sherwin
8. Sam Corrigan
7. Rory Brown
6. James White – CAPTAIN
5. Mikey O’Reilly
4. David Walsh
3. Riain Coogan
2. Tom Stewart – VICE CAPTAIN
1. Ben Howard
Replacements:
16. Tom Begley
17. Edward McLaughlin
18. Duinn Maguire
19. Frazer McKenna
20. Billy O’Donohoe
21. Chris O’Connor
22. Ethan Black
23. Charles Foley

Blackrock College:
15. Charlie Molony
14. James O’Sullivan
13. Luke Kritzinger
12. Mark Walsh
11. Eoghan Walsh
10. Conor O’Shaughnessy
9. Oliver Coffey – CAPTAIN
1. Tom O’Riordan
2. Mikey Yarr
3. Alex Mullan
4. Michael Colreavy – VICE CAPTAIN
5. Tommy Butler
6. Conor Tonge
7. Jack Angulo
8. Tom Brigg
Replacements:
16. Gregg Barron
17. Paddy Moore
18. Ciaran Patchell
19. Donnacha McGuire
20. Conall Hodges
21. Jack Larkin
22. Harry Whelan – VICE CAPTAIN
23. Andrew Quinn

[mildlyinterested]

7-3 to michaels at half time.

poor conditions, but michaels scored a quality try.

two big injuries for each side with Tom Brigg and it looks like Tom Stewart unable to continue.

[cormac]

Blackrock win 17-14.

Could well have been a different outcome if there'd been a TMO.

[mildlyinterested]

Michaels probably harshly treated by ref.

Still rock well worth their win.

Heavy favourites now in final.

[OTT]

Ref blew up for a knock on against Michael’s when Rock were in for a certain try in the first half.

Rock knocked on before one of their try’s but looked like they had got over twice before that but the ref who was standing the other side of the goal line behind everyone said he didn’t see it either time.

There were two forward passes in the lead up to Michael’s second try.

Not sure about the ref or TMO comments tbh but a bit like Berch and people on here I’m probably biased.
Good game of rugby considering the conditions.

[backrower8]

The referee was poor for both teams. Didn't play advantage. Told them to use the ball when mauls were still moving forward.

Rock looked the better team but all their points came from referee error, so can't say they deserved to win.

Their first try was the worst a total truck and trailer job with 4 bound players shearing off a lineout maul and trundling towards the line without any defenders opposing them until the last defender enaged and was blown away as they went over the line unopposed

Harsh yellow on the Michael's tight head which facilitated a nudge in the scrum and regaining possession before the second try (after a blatant knock-on on the line to everyone watching on TV)

He rivalled the elements for dragging the game down. A draw would have allowed for a better specatcle on a better day, but I think Rock are better and would have done better on a dryer day.

[backrower8]

Ref blew up for a knock on against Michael’s when Rock were in for a certain try in the first half.

Rock knocked on before one of their try’s but looked like they had got over twice before that but the ref who was standing the other side of the goal line behind everyone said he didn’t see it either time.

There were two forward passes in the lead up to Michael’s second try.

Not sure about the ref or TMO comments tbh but a bit like Berch and people on here I’m probably biased.
Good game of rugby considering the conditions.

I watched on TV and did not see any evidence of grounded tries before the hooker knocked on.

Which passes do you think were forward?

Better team won.

Rock pack will subdue Gonzaga on a heavier surface.

[OTT]

Ref blew up for a knock on against Michael’s when Rock were in for a certain try in the first half.

Rock knocked on before one of their try’s but looked like they had got over twice before that but the ref who was standing the other side of the goal line behind everyone said he didn’t see it either time.

There were two forward passes in the lead up to Michael’s second try.

Not sure about the ref or TMO comments tbh but a bit like Berch and people on here I’m probably biased.
Good game of rugby considering the conditions.

I watched on TV and did not see any evidence of grounded tries before the hooker knocked on.

Which passes do you think were forward?

Better team won.

Rock pack will subdue Gonzaga on a heavier surface.

A TMO might have seen evidence that you didn’t in the grounding/non grounding of the ball.

It was a great try. The last two passes looked forward IMO the last pass was forward IMO. A TMO would have proved me right or wrong on that.

I thought the ref was poor and inconsistent for both teams as you said in your other post. My comment was replying to two posts where it was intimated Michael’s appeared to get robbed by (1) not having a TMO and (2) the ref favouring Rock. I’m not sure that is the case but as I said I’m biased a bit like Jackman who only realised there was any wind when the second half started. Great game, pity about the conditions. Brigg will be a huge loss for the final for Blackrock.

[mildlyinterested]

Brigg is a big loss, hopefully it's not a long term injury for him.

[Plámásing]

Play the conditions Cullen:
I heard Leo Cullen say before the 2018 European final and the Saracens European final that it is important to play the conditions and watch the weather before a big game/final. Blackrock certainly followed that advice today and Michaels tried to extend their plays too much and and play long passes and lineouts. It wasn’t the day for it. Blackrock kept the ball tight all game rarely going beyond the ten/twelve channel and played almost every lineout to two while Michaels played the majority of lineouts to six all day. Blackrock came not to play but play the conditions and they did that almost perfectly.

The game:
From what I can recall of the game from the sideline I remember the below approximations of major game battles and approximate error count I can recall from memory. The game was won by the team who had less errors and by that I mean lineouts, catching of box kicks and knock-ons/breakdown penalties.

The major errors for Michaels consisted of three lineout over throws where Rock recovered on Michaels throw in, four dropped box kicks, four or five handling errors/knock-ons and three sealing not on feet at breakdown penalties. Rock by contrast had approx. one or two breakdown penalties all game, two or three knock ons and zero lineout box kick catching errors - they didn’t play beyond the ten/twelve channel except possibly three times when they were pushed out by the defence and they threw lineouts to two all day. They had less knock-ons/penalties, zero errors on lineout and zero errors box kick fielding which turned out as the winning of the game for them.

Rock won the lineout battle hands down. They won the box kicking battle hands down, and they won the error battle(knock-ons and penalties at breakdown hands down) and it ultimately proved the winning of the match. I would say that Michaels slightly edged the scrum matchups and the contact battle was fairly evenly matched.

Players:
For Rock their back three were solid as rocks. Tonge looks like a pro in the making and Coffey was consistent in his box kicking length and accuracy. It was unfortunate for Michaels Wood/Lucey who dropped four box kicks between them. They were/are generally very good at catching it’s just that the wind was swirling when those kicks came down, their bodies were shaking from the cold not being warm, and the ball was like a bar of soap and the swirling wind made it impossible to judge the run up to catch them. It’s a testament to the height and depth Coffey put on those kicks.

I wonder why Michaels persisted making extended plays in such conditions but I suppose it’s a testament to them deciding to back their skill set in such conditions and go for the slightly riskier plays, longer passes and lineouts. The overthrows to six in the lineouts came at times in the game when the teams were feeling each other out and trying to get the upper hand in certain areas. It was like handing them the keys to the game. It was little upper hand moments that they built from and gave them a foothold into the game.

There was talk about the ref, I thought he was generally good but I raised my eyebrows on two breakdown penalties where he gave them against the attacking team. I know the attacking team are not exempt from penalties but they are less likely to intentionally infringe when on the front foot. I thought it broke the momentum of the game for Michaels. There are no arguments here though. The try we scored in the last ten minutes the passes were not forward I was on the sideline as the wind swirled on the wide pass but it didn’t go forward because it’s started going way backward and then pushed forward but not beyond the attacking line of the passer. Possibly was forward from the offload on the try line to the try scorer but I didn’t have a view of that pass.

The Michaels pack were immense from one to eight I would possibly say this team was in the top four Michaels teams ever (and I wouldn’t have one of the three cup winning teams in that top four.) There have been players to make it to pro level from Michaels cup winning teams where I knew they wouldn’t make it to first team honours but in my top four teams I have thought there was players that could possibly do that but they were never selected because they didn’t win the cup. Somewhat like Soroka and Dorris who have proven great signings despite not winning the cup. For me White was the standout player for us but Brown, Corrigan, Stewart, Howard, Walsh and one to eight were all immense. You could say the exact same for Rock except they executed the tight exchanges on the day better as a unit. Less handling errors and penalties.

For me Mikey O’Reilly is an absolute unit maybe lacking two or three inches in height to be a professional second row but would be a good pro 8. Corrigan and Stewart my other wild cards but probably won’t get contracts because we didn’t win. White not big enough although a weapon the tight. De Klerk reminds me of Contepomi, trying chip kicks from everywhere on the pitch possibly too many for a day like today but he could fill a hole in Leinster where good tens need to be brought through.

The back three defence for me was superb all cup I’ve never seen a more organised Michaels unit make better defensive decisions and able to scramble and win defensive plays when they were outnumbered by attackers. Honourable mention for Jules Fenton also whose reading of the thirteen/fifteen channels is almost telepathic. Also the nine Sherwin was an attacking weapon at fielding and counter attacking off clearance kicks all cup.

Conclusion:
Back to Cullens advice, it was the winning of the game. Blackrock kept it tight and made less errors. You shouldn’t be throwing lineouts beyond two on a day like today and it was too risky. They played the conditions better so no arguments and fair play to them. I will be shouting for Gonzaga on final day, they have played the most attractive rugby for the past eight years of the LSSC. Their aspirational game is a sight to behold but I think they might become pragmatists if they lose another final to Blackrock. I hope not and I hope they win playing backline rugby. May the best team win!

[robrusslinginthebush]

Slight break in Blackrock's crick scores matches last week, back to it next week against Gonzaga.
score prediction
Blackrock 57-1 Gonzaga

[Plámásing]

I think it’s important to add a caveat of my incredibly “professional” advice on not throwing long passes or lineouts to six above, essentially, I know very little compared to the coaches on how to play with this team! I back completely the coaches decision to do so and if they paid heed to any of the advice of supporters like me, we would probably ship 50 points to teams. I defer completely to their superior knowledge.

[Oldschoolsocks]

I think it’s important to add a caveat of my incredibly “professional” advice on not throwing long passes or lineouts to six above, essentially, I know very little compared to the coaches on how to play with this team! I back completely the coaches decision to do so and if they paid heed to any of the advice of supporters like me, we would probably ship 50 points to teams. I defer completely to their superior knowledge.

Did you get an earful?

[Plámásing]

No just posted in heat of moment post match without thinking through all the elements that go into picking a gameplan. Obviously first impressions on gameplan don’t go nearly as far as a season long planning by the coaching team. I’m sure experts like myself are good at giving advice until we actually do the job and fail miserably.

In fact, I like the fact we came to outplay with attractive rugby despite the conditions. We backed our skill set and tried to outplay them. I take my hat off for that approach. Route one rugby may get the job done but it doesn’t utilise the skills of a team who go out to extend the opposition and create space. Our tries were created with interplay of passes, and gaps appeared. Rocks weren’t. But no complaints.

[Oldschoolsocks]

No just posted in heat of moment post match without thinking through all the elements that go into picking a gameplan. Obviously first impressions on gameplan don’t go nearly as far as a season long planning by the coaching team. I’m sure experts like myself are good at giving advice until we actually do the job and fail miserably.

Fair enuff

[Plámásing]

And what’s more I hope this doesn’t impact the selection of players for professional contracts. I think the days of cup winning teams getting their staple 2 players onto the Academy are gone. There is a multitude of fantastic players that never won the cup. Winning doesn’t/shouldn’t guarantee a place on the academy. Tom Stewart had absolutely buckled his knee just before half time and my feeling was he should be taken off. But he played on. That sort of bottle can’t be bought. And there are players on the academy just because they won the cup. It would be a crying shame if he isn’t awarded a contract.

Let’s see where the people befriending and softening him/us up before the game with nicknames stand on this now. No doubt it was empty flattery.

[RugbyRugby2019]

And what’s more I hope this doesn’t impact the selection of players for professional contracts. I think the days of cup winning teams getting their staple 2 players onto the Academy are gone. There is a multitude of fantastic players that never won the cup. Winning doesn’t/shouldn’t guarantee a place on the academy. Tom Stewart had absolutely buckled his knee just before half time and my feeling was he should be taken off. But he played on. That sort of bottle can’t be bought. And there are players on the academy just because they won the cup. It would be a crying shame if he isn’t awarded a contract.

Let’s see where the people befriending and softening him/us up before the game with nicknames stand on this now. No doubt it was empty flattery.

Where’d you get the idea that lads are getting academy contracts just because they won the cup?

None of last years winners are in the academy yet. There was no final played the 2 years before that so unless you’re talking about Cosgrave, Boyle, Hernan or Barron……??

Michael’s got knocked out in the first round last year and the starting 9 will get an academy place and a lad who didn’t even play in the cup because of injury will also likely be the same.

Getting exposure in the cup obviously helps, but you’re probably doing a bit of a disservice to the Leinster set up if you think they just select players based on who ultimately ends up with a medal.

[Devintonerenthuaiast]

And what’s more I hope this doesn’t impact the selection of players for professional contracts. I think the days of cup winning teams getting their staple 2 players onto the Academy are gone. There is a multitude of fantastic players that never won the cup. Winning doesn’t/shouldn’t guarantee a place on the academy. Tom Stewart had absolutely buckled his knee just before half time and my feeling was he should be taken off. But he played on. That sort of bottle can’t be bought. And there are players on the academy just because they won the cup. It would be a crying shame if he isn’t awarded a contract.

Let’s see where the people befriending and softening him/us up before the game with nicknames stand on this now. No doubt it was empty flattery.

[robrusslinginthebush]

And what’s more I hope this doesn’t impact the selection of players for professional contracts. I think the days of cup winning teams getting their staple 2 players onto the Academy are gone. There is a multitude of fantastic players that never won the cup. Winning doesn’t/shouldn’t guarantee a place on the academy. Tom Stewart had absolutely buckled his knee just before half time and my feeling was he should be taken off. But he played on. That sort of bottle can’t be bought. And there are players on the academy just because they won the cup. It would be a crying shame if he isn’t awarded a contract.

Let’s see where the people befriending and softening him/us up before the game with nicknames stand on this now. No doubt it was empty flattery.

*** Edited by mod ***

[Oldschoolsocks]

And what’s more I hope this doesn’t impact the selection of players for professional contracts. I think the days of cup winning teams getting their staple 2 players onto the Academy are gone. There is a multitude of fantastic players that never won the cup. Winning doesn’t/shouldn’t guarantee a place on the academy. Tom Stewart had absolutely buckled his knee just before half time and my feeling was he should be taken off. But he played on. That sort of bottle can’t be bought. And there are players on the academy just because they won the cup. It would be a crying shame if he isn’t awarded a contract.

Let’s see where the people befriending and softening him/us up before the game with nicknames stand on this now. No doubt it was empty flattery.

*** Edited by mod ***

Bit strong, no?